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Any refrigeration experts here (ASHP)?


ProDave

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On 12/06/2018 at 14:59, ProDave said:

I have just come off the phone from speaking to Trading Standards.

 

On their advice my next move is a recorded delivery letter stating it is not of satisfactory quality (because it does not work) and I am requesting a free repair or replacement within a reasonable time.

 

I then have to give them 14 days to respond and if no response or non favourable, continue with trading standards who now have this complaint logged.

 

That’s interesting.

 

I thought TS were focusing away from consumers these days, and referred cases to Citizens Advice.

 

Scotland different, or Ferdinand mistaken? Hoping the latter.

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Just to conclude this, the new replacement unit arrived today. I will start a new thread about comissioning and putting that into use.  I was pleased to see it came with the "sanitarty water kit" (hot water tank kit) I had noted in the manual that was an optional extra.

 

And I put the old faulty one on Gumtree and that sold and was collected yesterday.

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1 hour ago, ProDave said:

I was pleased to see it came with the "sanitarty water kit" (hot water tank kit) I had noted in the manual that was an optional extra.

 

Ha ha, they REALLY didn’t want to have to deal with you again. You can hear it now “for Christ sake just put the extra kit in so he doesn’t darken our door again” :D

 

Seriously, I’m glad it’s turned up and hope you get it working without too much effort. And good news re getting shot of the other one! 

 

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It's not over yet.  Can I scream. AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!1

 

There I feel a bit better.

 

The replacement unit arrived this morning. I have had a busy day trying to get it installed and working. Only to find. It does not work.

 

I have only done the very basic connections to get it to run, there will still be a lot of further work to do but I wanted to prove it was okay.  Well it's not.

 

What happens is you give it a heat demand (in this case ask for hot water, but I doubt it would be any different if you asked for heating) and it trips on no water flow. It doesn't even get as far as starting the fan or the compressor.  It tries to start the pump and then trips about 10 seconds later.

 

I noticed the inbuilt WILO pump was making a sort of chirping noice once a second, then it's lights started flashing red and green. I don't have the instructions for it. but I guess that's not normal.  So as a test, I swapped it for the (now spare) Grundfoss pump I have that I know to be in good order. And it is still the same, apart from the fact the pump runs for the 10 seconds before it trips with the no flow error.

 

I have no contacted the supplier yet, as I just know they will say "it's your plumbing"  Well I am pretty damned sure it is not. With the old heat pump, I had a pump and flow meter in the plant room (the old one did not have them built in) and I had plenty of flow showing on the flow meter.  ALL I did to change the plumbing for this one is change the fittings on the end of the flexi hoses at the heat pump end, and bypassed the pump and flow meter as this one has them both built into the heat pump.  I can't believe those 2 simple changes introduced a blockage.

 

Anyway, I have done a post Mortem on the Wilo pump and it is not pretty.

 

wilo.thumb.jpg.ec7594a3d48fdfa86a086d1f2af04ba6.jpg

 

Clearly this unit has been sat some time with some horrible rusty water in it. The pump was seized solid. It would not surprise me if the plate heat exchanger is not gummed up solid as well.

 

I guess I need to throw my complaint back to them again.

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This is getting to be pretty unbelievable, especially given the fact that they know that getting stuff, or engineers, out to where you are is a pain.  Looks to me like that's been sat for a long time with uninhibited water in it, many months for sure.  With luck the PHE may be OK, as it should be above the pump, so may well have stayed dry.  Being made of stainless will have helped, too.

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Okay still no joy.

 

I feel before I throw this back at them again, I need to prove the water is flowing at the required rate to prove I do not have a plumbing issue.

 

So can anyone point me at a flow meter or flow switch that will easily fit in line with a 22mm copper pipe

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I might have an old flow switch off of a NewTeam shower somewhere...

 

Think it's 15mm though...come to think of it it might be for 24vdc.

 

Edit: Found it:

 

20180625_213906.thumb.jpg.ee8dc010c32b2aa7eeeb44c2793cadab.jpg

 

20180625_213922.thumb.jpg.6079375bc3233eb0ba191edf928a3501.jpg

Edited by Onoff
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1 hour ago, PeterW said:

Navitron do a cheap one that does 1-12 litres which should be fine. 

 

I’d still be emailing pictures of that pump to their MD....

I liked the look of that. Until I found the postage would be more than the flow meter.

 

Looking for something nice and simple like that. Plenty on ebay but all from China and I don't want to wait that long.

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3 hours ago, JSHarris said:

This is getting to be pretty unbelievable, especially given the fact that they know that getting stuff, or engineers, out to where you are is a pain.  Looks to me like that's been sat for a long time with uninhibited water in it, many months for sure.  With luck the PHE may be OK, as it should be above the pump, so may well have stayed dry.  Being made of stainless will have helped, too.

In this one the PHE is level with the pump, I will post a pic tomorrow.  There is also a Willis heater in line, cunningly positioned to ensure it would be impossible to ever change the immersion element.

 

But hopefully they will have been essentially empty of this foul water.

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6 minutes ago, ProDave said:

In this one the PHE is level with the pump, I will post a pic tomorrow.  There is also a Willis heater in line, cunningly positioned to ensure it would be impossible to ever change the immersion element.

 

But hopefully they will have been essentially empty of this foul water.

The other components wouldn't promote rust / ferrous decay like a pump would either so maybe not so bad as you fear. Question is, is will a new pump sort it ?

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I would want to stick a power flush unit onto it and run it through until it was crystal clear ... and a new Wilo BUT I wonder if it’s an older type pump so you may have some fun replacing that as most new ERP pumps self regulate. 

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16 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

The other components wouldn't promote rust / ferrous decay like a pump would either so maybe not so bad as you fear. Question is, is will a new pump sort it ?

I am struggling to work out just how this got in such a state.  It was not just a case of plain water was left in the pump for a while. Once I cleaned it up, the body of the pump was pretty good, and the impellor is plastic and the other bit stainless steel. So the rust did NOT come from the pump or any other internal part of the heat pump which is all stainless, copper or brass.

 

So it must have been connected to a system full of dirty rusty water, and then not rinsed. Another unit with a dubious history?

 

When I feel a bit less demoralised by the whole saga, I will try the simple thing of connect a hose to the return and see if water actually passes through to the flow, or is it blocked. But every time I drain a bit down to try something like that, more of my antifreeze goes west.

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8 minutes ago, PeterW said:

I'd pull the gauze on that Y Strainer too and see whats in there

I did, and it was pretty clear.

 

But I'll bet the bottom of the willis heater tube has some crud in it. And no way to drain that.

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The latest is they are sending a new circulation pump. I will fit that when it gets here and hopefully should have the flow meter to fit as well.

 

If that doe not fix it, the manufacturers service engineer will come. But they want the replacement pump fitted and tested first.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well the flow meter took a long time coming but it finally arrived this morning and I have just fitted it.

 

With the new pump, and the flow meter, I now have a measure that the water is flowing around the system at 14 litres per minute.  Astonishingly I can find nothing in the instalation manual to tell me what the minimum and maximum water flow rates should be, so I have bounced that question to the supplier.  If 14 l/m is enough then I have asked for that service visit. If it is not I will fit a second pump to boost the flow rate.

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Well word came back from the manufacturer this morning that the flow switch is "set at 10 litres per minute +- 3 litres"  So I guess my indicated 14 litres per minute just wasn't quite enough.

 

So I fitted a second circulating pump (put back the one I took out when I installed this heat pump) and that pushed the flow rate up to 20 litres per minute and the unit sprang into life, and as I type this is busy heating my water tank.

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