Researching Legal Cases where my LPA has been involved.

[ToughButterCup]

I need to do a bit of research. I want to find out which cases my LPA has presented for consideration in a court.

 

The Head Of Planning locally responded to a recent request of mine (to prevent someone using a caravan as a domicile rather than a worksite hut)  saying simply, based on a similar  local case,  that it  would be difficult to do and  cost too much to enforce.

 

I'd like to find out whether the analogy the Planning Officer draws is correct. To do that  I'd like to find out which Planning issues have been presented for consideration at court by our Local Planning Authority.

[Ferdinand]

If it is just the one, can you just phone up the HoP and ask him which one he meant ? :-). Or not possible for a good reason? That answer sounds a bit like code for "we tried to enforce and got an expensive spanking by a bloke in a wig with a butt-hammer."

 

One way, which is free, would be a carefully framed FOI request.

 

Perhaps you need to decide whether you mean precedent setting or not. If the former, you may also need to consider Planning Appeal decisions too.

 

I would probably suggest an informal phone chat with your Council's Legal Dept first - framed that you want to find out xyz, and asking them how to frame your request to make it focused and as painless as possible for them. You can also ask the Freedom of Information Officer, as there is an expectation that they should help.

 

You could also try searching the BAILLI database https://ials.sas.ac.uk/digital/bailii or Court News, who cover lots of stuff. 

 

F

 

[Jeremy Harris]

You should be able access all court judgements, but the chances are that many county court judgements may well not be available online, so you will probably have to enquire directly from the court.  You have the right to access all judgements from any open court hearing, but they may levy a small charge for paper copies of them, and you don't have the right to see any evidence that was presented, other than reports than may have been made of it by court reporters.  Often, several media outlets, especially local papers, will share one court reporter, to keep down costs, so you may be able to find out who has attended any particular case and ask them if they can let you know what evidence was presented (I suspect they'll want paying for it!).

 

There are a few potential gotchas, in that unless there has been a judgement, there may well not be a publicly accessible record.  Often civil cases are settled out of court, commonly at the last minute, and as a general rule these settlements will not be publicly available, so not only will you not know the decision but you won't be able to get hold of any reports on evidence presented, as it won't have been given in open court.  The same goes for any case resolved via mediation, rather than an open court hearing.

 

[ToughButterCup]

7 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

I[...]

Or not possible for a good reason? That answer sounds a bit like code for "we tried to enforce and got an expensive spanking by a bloke in a wig with a butt-hammer."

[...]

 

Exactly. Not sure about the hammer, though.?

[newhome]

Tell him you’re going to put several workhuts in the garden and fill them with tenants 

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

@newhome: what a friggin good idea. Can't beat them? Join in.

[ToughButterCup]

Folks, which type of court hears planning issues?

[Onoff]

What Council is it?

[ToughButterCup]

Wyre Borough...

[newhome]

8 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

@newhome: what a friggin good idea. Can't beat them? Join in.

 

In fact, why build a house, just string a few huts together, hot tub in the garden, job’s a goodun! 

[Jeremy Harris]

7 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

Folks, which type of court hears planning issues?

 

Should be the county court, usually the one closest to the area, but it doesn't have to be.  I once brought a claim in another county, simply because their court had an online small claims track system.  Part of the challenge is going to be finding out which court heard the case.  You can access court lists, but often they aren't that easy to search.  Every case should be listed, which would at least give you the date and court where it was due to be heard.  Court lists always used to be sent out to the local press, but I'm not sure if they still are.  They should be available at the court, though.  With luck you may be able to do a search for all hearings involving Wyre Borough and then sift through those to see if you can work out what each case is (unfortunately the lists only usually give the names of the two or more parties involved, the court, the name of the judge and the date).

[newhome]

14 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

Folks, which type of court hears planning issues?

 

Planning court for most (appeals by the householder and suchlike) but I think magistrates court for planning enforcement cases.  

[newhome]

This any good? 

 

http://www.wyre.gov.uk/site/scripts/enforcement.php

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

FOI, as @Ferdinand says, direct to the planners - otherwise you could be in for a very long haul.

[Ferdinand]

@recoveringacademic

 

Create a pseudonym that sounds like a real name, and use http://whatdotheyknow.com. They (run by http://MySociety.org of theyworkforyou.com fame) will also have an example amongst the 470k FOI requests they have administered that could help with your wording.

 

Here is the page for the 229 previous FOI requests to Wyre Borough Council.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/wyre_borough_council

 

I love the one about the Risk and Method Statement for Paint Spraying Dog Poo.

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

In England serious challenges to policy or decisions will be High Court or Judicial Review.

 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Ferdinand

[ToughButterCup]

39 minutes ago, newhome said:

This any good? 

http://www.wyre.gov.uk/site/scripts/enforcement.php

 

Trawled through that a few times : but I'm beginning to think about phone call is what is needed.

[Temp]

When travellers move on to a green field site that they own (or with permission from the owner) planners can't evict them, only the owner can do that. What the council has to do is issue planning enforcement sometimes backed with an injunction to speed up the process.

 

So why is it so hard to prevent this breech of planning? I doubt it's just about the cost of enforcement. I suspect they feel the extra impact of its use as a dwelling rather than a workshop is too small to win an appeal should the owner apply for planning permission for change of use.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Temp]

If the person living in the caravan is building their own house or some other development (I mean literally building it themselves or managing the work) they dont need planning permission to live in a site van.  PP is only required for a temporary caravan if their children or spouse (who's not envolved with the building work) also lives in it.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Temp

[newhome]

4 minutes ago, Temp said:

PP is only required for a temporary caravan if their children or spouse (who's not envolved with the building work) also lives in it.

 

Oh, I didn't know that. Just as well I didn't live in ours then although I guess I could have argued that I was involved, after all I did do 'some' stuff and I doubt there is a definitive meaning of 'involved'. 

 

This was a case where a shed was approved and someone built a house and sold it on. Heaven knows how the searches didn't uncover the issue (or maybe they did and they thought it was worth the risk?). 

 

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2018/06/07/family-lose-appeal-to-stay-in-home-which-was-only-given-planning-permission-to-be-shed/

 

 

[Temp]

My guess is they didn't use a solicitor?

[ToughButterCup]

Here's the full text of the HoPs email to my local councillor and sent to me....

 

We appreciate that this is not a satisfactory situation, however, the developer is making use of permitted development rights which we believe provide a loophole for someone wishing to live on a site, but one which we cannot easily deal with. We tried a few years ago to take enforcement action on a very similar case elsewhere in the borough and lost. We are therefore reluctant to go down the same road unless we have a strong case. It is probably a matter on which we will need to get specialist (and expensive!) legal advice.

 

My fear is that, through false analogy, the HoP is kicking this can down the road. This case may well be stronger than the one to which he refers.

Even Google Maps documents the ludicrous state of affairs thus;

Click this link

It takes you to Google Maps. Look at the date on the bottom of the image. It shows that the satellite image was taken in 2018. You can see our build at the top (roofless house) and the plot of land -the one of concern here- directly to the south

 

Now click on the street view link for that map (or click here)

It takes you to an image taken at street level. Look at the date of the image : it's 2009. As luck would have it on that day, the Street View image shows a yellow notice of Application for Planning Permission (for a house) was fixed to the gate of the Old Quarry. The Street View image has not been updated for nine years, but the map has been.

 

The foundation you can see is for a stables, NOT for a house

PP for the house was refused at Appeal long ago (March last year).

The owner is dragging out the build for the stables as long as he can. So far about 30 blocks have been laid in 9 years. The HoP defines that as ' ...  [a situation] we cannot easily deal with... '

 

My attitude to that is -   you are paid  very high salary - dealing with difficult stuff is your job 

 

So, I need to get stuck into this one (not at the expense of my own build). The first step is some thorough research. Hence the question - to which decision is the HoP referring when he says 

 

We tried a few years ago to take enforcement action on a very similar case elsewhere in the borough and lost. (?)

My bet is that he makes a false analogy. Let's see if my 'nose' is right

[newhome]

So are they using the caravan as a permanent residence rather than a temporary arrangement whilst they build a house? How long have they been using it? 

 

I would widen the net and look for similar cases elsewhere to ascertain whether other councils had been successful in taking enforcement action that you can use as evidence of successful enforcement. 

 

Any mention of this in the parish council minutes (or whatever they are called in England these days)? What do other local residents think and are you likely to have any support from others who live locally? 

[daiking]

Can I just ask what the problem is here?

 

What is making you try to enforce planning rules when you’re not a council planner?

[ProDave]

Is this the one where the building is being built in the wrong location on the plot and not following the plans? Surely they can enforce THAT issue?

 

When building a house and living in a caravan on site it is normal to get temporary PP to use the caravan as a dwelling so the whole familly can legally live in it.