Cleaning Copper Pipe Pre Soldering

[Onoff]

Pre soldering, then after wire wooling I always clean my copper with white spirit before fluxing.

 

Is meths or even isopropyl alcohol  (IPA) an acceptable alternative (better)?

[PeterW]

No need. 

 

I don’t use wire wool as you can leave bits behind that can rust.

 

I use a piece of one of these 100 grit pads and go round the pipe then that’s it - flux and go as the flux will clean any chemical residue as it goes. 

[Onoff]

Cheers. A bit late as I've used wire wool!

 

Btw, does this joint look "dry"? Cleaned pre fluxing with IPA.

 

 

 

 

[CC45]

id want to see a good ring of solder at the ends of the fitting.  That looks a bit mean to me, it will prob be OK I guess.    I use wire wool - outside of pipe & inside of fitting - do fitting first, blow clean of wire bits & flux and put down.  Clean pipe, blow & flux - slip on the fitting, clean etc other bit of pipe connect it all up.  15mm pipe does not need that much heat. 

 

I think you really ought to get that mechanism for the shower head done first! it won't help you much but the anticipation is killing me.

[Onoff]

10 minutes ago, CC45 said:

id want to see a good ring of solder at the ends of the fitting.  That looks a bit mean to me, it will prob be OK I guess.    I use wire wool - outside of pipe & inside of fitting - do fitting first, blow clean of wire bits & flux and put down.  Clean pipe, blow & flux - slip on the fitting, clean etc other bit of pipe connect it all up.  15mm pipe does not need that much heat. 

 

I think you really ought to get that mechanism for the shower head done first! it won't help you much but the anticipation is killing me.

 

The solder didn't seem to want to "go in". Using that Templars flux everyone's on about here. Going to clean and go over this joint again.

 

This is the flux / solder combo I've always used in the past. Using this solder now but with the Templars flux:

 

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by Onoff

[bassanclan]

Throw away that wire wool before you get tetanus!  The scotchbite pad is good or get a little pipe deburrer for £2-3 from Toolstation.

 

That joint looks dry, but also like a Yorkshire joint. Are you endfeeding as well?

[Onoff]

13 minutes ago, bassanclan said:

Throw away that wire wool before you get tetanus!  The scotchbite pad is good or get a little pipe deburrer for £2-3 from Toolstation.

 

That joint looks dry, but also like a Yorkshire joint. Are you endfeeding as well?

 

They're all Yorkshire...

[Nickfromwales]

Use very fine steel wool, not the stuff that's like a wire brush. 

Ive soldered with mild for over two and a half decades, so the fault is with the method, not the product. 

Excess heat will fry the flux away and then your screwed. At that point get the flux brush and recoat the hot fitting. You'll see the copper go bright straight away and then you can re-introduce the heat and just feed a little more solder at the top, letting the solder flow to the bottom and drop off. 

Once you see one drop drip off you know the joints saturated. 

Another tip is to apply a bit of flux to the solder sobit keeps getting fluxed as you go. 

If you want to break the law and use leaded solder, ALWAYS clean it with steel wool first as it gets stinking and you get the slag on the joint. 

Use lead free, and away to go. 

Don't you find that 'orrible Frys stuff causes the joints and pipe to bite and bind ? Can't stand the stuff personally.   

[Nickfromwales]

Oh, and Yorkshire doesn't need any thought. Just clean it, flux it, heat it and leave it to cool. 

Just don't OVER heat it. 

[Onoff]

Tried again, cleaned the joint wire wool then spirit. Got some Templars around it. MAPP gas from the side about 30 deg off horizontal:

 

 

And cleaned up, still looks crap:

 

 

Dads flux and solder on the tap connector:

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

WAY too hot. Reduce the flame size and back the flame away as you see the solder fizz and evaporate.  

[Onoff]

OK, why are the fittings going black?

 

 

[PeterW]

Burnt flux or spirit residue. 

 

Why are you cleaning with white spirit anyway ...??? 

[Onoff]

21 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

WAY too hot. Reduce the flame size and back the flame away as you see the solder fizz and evaporate.  

 

17 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Burnt flux or spirit residue. 

 

Why are you cleaning with white spirit anyway ...??? 

 

I just always have. Never had these issues though. I've done it how I always have on the tap connector and that looks alright doesn't it?

 

At this rate I'll be ripping it all out and doing Cuprofit push fit. No confidence in any of it except for the tap connector!

Edited May 29, 2018 by Onoff

[Onoff]

F*** IT!

 

?

[ProDave]

I have never cleaned with any solvent. Fine steel wool will have it shining bright, flux on straight away before you even touch it with bare hands.

 

The fittings are going black because you are getting it way too hot.

 

And looking at the "subject" joint, I can't see you are end feeding it?  I personally like to end feed a bit just to be sure, and you definitely know it when you have done so.

 

Another mistake I see (even some plumbers) is they are too quick to grab the joint with a wet rag and clean it all off while it is still hot. I prefer to leave the flux while it is cooling and only wipe it with a dry rag when it is pretty cool.

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

WAY too hot. Reduce the flame size and back the flame away as you see the solder fizz and evaporate.  

 

Didn't think I could reduce the flame size? But the brass knob seems to do it. Wire wooled, no solvent. A smear of Templars around the joint line.  Flame down to the minimum:

 

 

Not so black as before, honest:

 

 

Some snots hanging down:

 

 

Better?

 

 

If they are going to leak will they do so straight away or fail over time?

[joe90]

Well I always use these to clean both pipe and fitting https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p49495. Also when I was taught how to solder joints ( a few decades ago) I was told not to heat the pipe/fitting too quickly, keep the flame away a bit so the whole joint heated uniformly and keep tapping the solder on the joint till it melted in and remove the flame immediately, also as above, don’t be in too much of a hurry to cool it down with water etc.

Edited May 29, 2018 by joe90

[CC45]

It looks like too much heat.  Brush flux up the outside of the pipe a bit so the solder has a chance to run to the edge of  the fitting.  When I went to lead free stuff I found the solder less meltable and was tending to overheat joints - now I keep the solder near to the heated fitting and check it frequently on the fitting itself.  I sometimes feel that a fitting once cooked once never is the same again.  Still end feed a yorkshire fitting - you will soon move onto normal (cheaper) fittings.  I would take that joint apart, bin the filling, really well clean the pipe (unless you can see the ends are well tinned) and give it another go.

 

I use the same flux and solder you do but I dont put anything else on.  Never had any probs.  Personal preference I guess.

 

Plasterboard makes a good heat shield (paper does burn a bit).

[billt]

Yes, too much heat. I used one of those MAPP torches when installing the wood boiler; they're great for 28mm+ fittings, but OTT for 15mm.

 

Keep the torch a bit further away should help.

 

On the other hand it is quick, once you've got the knack.

[Onoff]

Thanks all. Strip out and start again then. What do I wipe the solder off the pipe with? Wet rag, dry rag?

[Nickfromwales]

9 hours ago, Onoff said:

Thanks all. Strip out and start again then. What do I wipe the solder off the pipe with? Wet rag, dry rag?

It may look ugly on the outside but, if it's been cleaned and fluxed, you really can't go wrong with a Yorkshire fitting. 

You introduce the heat, it hits the sweet spot, the flux has done its job, and the solder flows to where it's needed. 

Thats a given.

Now, clean one [ of the already soldered ] easily accessible fittings with steel wool. Flux it on the outside with the Frys. Apply Telux to the first 3" of your coil of solder. 

Heat the joint ( gently and slowly  ) until the Frys starts to fizz and evaporate. At that point pull the flame away until just the tip of the flame is keeping the joint hot. Apply the solder at the top of the joint and let it run to the bottom. If it drips off so be it, but then quickly jump to the other side and apply the solder the same there. 

Drop the solder, literally, remove the heat altogether, and get the Telux brushed onto the joint to clean and brighten it back up. 

A quick glance back with the heat and you'll see the solder just 'flow' and thin out. 

Flick the snob off at the bottom of the joint and leave it alone to cool. 

If that doesn't work, sell the house.  

Edited May 30, 2018 by Nickfromwales
tired

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

It may look ugly on the outside but, if it's been cleaned and fluxed, you really can't go wrong with a Yorkshire fitting. 

You introduce the heat, it hits the sweet spot, the flux has done its job, and the solder flows to where it's needed. 

Thats a given.

Now, clean one [ of the already soldered ] easily accessible fittings with steel wool. Flux it with the Frys. Apply Telux to the first 3" of slider. 

Heat the joint ( gently and slowly  ) until the Frys starts to fizz and evaporate. At that point pull the flame away until justvtye tip of the flame is keeping the joint hot. Apply the solder at the top of the joint and let it run to the bottom. If it drips off so be it, but then quickly jump to the other side and apply the solder the same there. 

Drop the solder, literally, remove the heat altogether, and get the Telux brushed onto the joint to clean and brighten it back up. 

A quick glance back with the heat and you'll see the solder just 'flow' and thin out. 

Flick the snob off at the bottom of the joint and leave it alone to cool. 

If that doesn't work, sell the house.  

 

What's Frys? You say to flux with it but isn't the Telux the Flux? Slider? Typo for solder?

[Nickfromwales]

8 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

What's Frys? You say to flux with it but isn't the Telux the Flux? Slider? Typo for solder?

Typos amended. As the fitting is a bit blackened, the Frys ( flux ) will get into where you cant with the steel wool and clean things up. Apply Telux to the coil of solder prior to using it to solder the joint, so your feeding solder and fresh flux in AS your soldering, just like how multicore ready fluxed soldering is done on wires / PCB's etc.

Your joints are getting bone dry and too hot, so the surface of the copper is getting grotty and the solder is saying Ta-Ta. Less heat, more flux, and stop cleaning with whatever solvent your using as that may be feckin things up too. 

Steel wool, Telux flux, lead free solder ( leaded is dirty and imports a lot of grot into the joint with it ) and turn the heat down a bit. You need to back the heat away from the joint when the flux fizzes and evaporates, and at that exact moment you should be reintroducing flux with the solder. At the very least, every plumber ( good ) that I know dips the end of the solder into the flux before using it to make the joint off. 

 

The reason I say easily accessible fittings is so you dont try doing this on one of the most difficult fittings to get to. Practice first on the horizontal sockets where you can get to things and see better 

[Nickfromwales]

Should have added I don't think theres any benefit here in dismantling the joints youve already done either. Their Yorkshire, so would have made themselves off as per my previous.