Earliest use of grey engineering bricks.

[epsilonGreedy]

I am doing some research into the historical use of grey engineering bricks below what we call dpc today, this is in preparation for a conversation with my local conservation officer. Does anyone know if these were used as far back as 1800 in domestic properties? So far I have found a reference to engineering bricks in canal locks.

[Construction Channel]

May be of use, at least it showed some dates, 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staffordshire_blue_brick

 

assuming that is what you meant by grey engineering bricks?

[Triassic]

The Romans?

[epsilonGreedy]

27 minutes ago, Triassic said:

The Romans?

 

 

Great so now it would be historically accurate to have engineering bricks and multiple wives.

[epsilonGreedy]

37 minutes ago, Construction Channel said:

May be of use, at least it showed some dates, 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staffordshire_blue_brick

 

 

This is a large step in the right direction.

 

Quote

A key date is 1851 when the Joseph Hamblett brickworks was founded in West Bromwich, which became one of the largest producers of the famous Staffordshire blue bricks. 

 

[Russell griffiths]

One wife is enough, my poor head couldn’t cope with another. 

[Russell griffiths]

What does he want you to use under damp course then. 

[epsilonGreedy]

4 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

What does he want you to use under damp course then.

 

 

This is not stated explicitly. My concern is that having taken delivery of a 60 brick sample pallet of the arty crafty handmade heritage bricks specified in a satisfied planning condition they are more highly aged and crumbly than I anticipated. I also think that a few courses of grey/blue bricks below a buff brick elevation looks good regardless of material brick worries.

 

Due to a minor concern of flash surface water flooding an enviro report recommended the DPC should be 300mm above ground and so substituting handmade buffs for grey engineering bricks will reduce the brick bill.

[Jeremy Harris]

My guess is that proper Staffordshire blues weren't made until very high temperature firing was introduced, which would fit with that 1851 date.  Almost all bricks, right up until the early part of the 20th century, were made by itinerant travelling brick makers close to where buildings were being constructed, using local clay and sand and firing them using open fires or crude temporary kilns.  It wasn't until we had decent transport systems able to deliver heavy loads directly to building sites that it became really practical to centralise brick making in large factories.

 

There was a "living history" display a couple of years ago, just down the road from us, where they had a practical demonstration of how itinerant brick makers worked, just digging out local materials, forming bricks by hand in wooden moulds, stacking them to dry and then firing them in what amounted to a large bonfire.  There was a large variation in colour and hardness in any batch, so they used the bricks from near the centre of the fire for the outside walls and the softer ones from the outer side of the fire for inside walls.

 

Staff blues need both a high temperature and an oxygen-free firing process, something that can only really be easily achieved in a closed kiln, so I'm pretty certain they can't be really ancient, despite their use on canal locks.  I'm pretty sure that all the Staff blues seen today on canal locks are restoration work, rather than originals, just because they are a lot stronger than other bricks and not so subject to spalling or frost damage.

 

 

[Ian]

1 hour ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

My concern is that having taken delivery of a 60 brick sample pallet of the arty crafty handmade heritage bricks specified in a satisfied planning condition they are more highly aged and crumbly than I anticipated. I also think that a few courses of grey/blue bricks below a buff brick elevation looks good regardless of material brick worries.

 

You should be looking to use a 'F2' grade brick in locations below DPC which simply means that they are frost proof. (F2 classification is the equivalent of the old F/L grade).

 

Not all facing bricks are frost resistant so it's worth checking.

[Brickie]

What’s the local norm in your location?

In some places it’s common to have a rendered plinth up to Dpc,meaning it can be built in concrete blocks & sulphate resistant mortar. 

Ps nice to see you back @JSHarris,coming in & blowing me away with your knowledge of my trade!

We should really have learned a bit more at college regarding history of bricks etc,but then I guess a lot of 18 yr old apprentices would just zone out if we went too deep. 

[epsilonGreedy]

23 minutes ago, Brickie said:

What’s the local norm in your location?

 

 

Errrm, I will get back to you on that one. In the past 3 months I have scrutinized dozens of Georgian period local buildings in an attempt to tune into the local style though so far my eyes have been drawn upwards to slate roofs, sash window reveals and cast iron external soil pipes.

 

Time to walk around the village again to examine the first 500mm above ground. Rendered blocks up to Dpc sounds nice and cheap.

[Jeremy Harris]

33 minutes ago, Brickie said:

Ps nice to see you back @JSHarris,coming in & blowing me away with your knowledge of my trade!

We should really have learned a bit more at college regarding history of bricks etc,but then I guess a lot of 18 yr old apprentices would just zone out if we went too deep. 

 

Thanks @Brickie, I'm just an admirer of nice brickwork really, and was fascinated to discover that it was normal practice until relatively recently to make bricks on site.  We still have one itinerant travelling brick maker left, this chap: http://www.ajmugridge.co.uk/

 

Worth reading the "history" section on his website.

[Ferdinand]

4 hours ago, epsilonGreedy said:

 

Great so now it would be historically accurate to have engineering bricks and multiple wives.

 

And umpteen slaves...

"Not Angels, but Anglicans".

[Ferdinand]

5 hours ago, epsilonGreedy said:

I am doing some research into the historical use of grey engineering bricks below what we call dpc today, this is in preparation for a conversation with my local conservation officer. Does anyone know if these were used as far back as 1800 in domestic properties? So far I have found a reference to engineering bricks in canal locks.

 

Phone these people. Brick Development Association.

 

http://brick.org.uk/

 

They have been publishing a magazine called Brick Bulletin for at least 40-50 years.

 

It is in competition with Concrete Quarterly if that is still running.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

Don't know about ceramics, but apparently a lot of the Great Wall of China,Imperial Palaces, etc is built from grey bricks. Tourists got a lot of it, but there is still some left !

 

Perhaps @Hecateh should have had some in her Great Wall.

 

 

A chappie called Wenwen Xia wrote a Thesis about it:

 

"An Investigation of Chinese Historical Grey Bricks of Soochow, Jiangsu and the Effect of Tung Oil Treatment"

 

They seem to date back to 7000BC.

 

Not sure if that helps an argument with Much-Binding-in-the-Marsh District Council Planning Department, unless you lob them at the windows. ?

 

This might though. Late 1600s to 1730 are mentioned as desirable by the Georgians. Killed off by cheap London Stocks etc.

https://www.scottishbrickhistory.co.uk/brick-development-through-the-centuries/

 

There is a bloke in Cambridge called Dr James Campbell who is a specialist in the History of Bricks.

https://www.martincentre.arct.cam.ac.uk/research/building-histories/history-of-brick

 

Wrote the definitive book on the subject. Should be cheap on Ebay as it was published in 2003.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brick-James-W-P-Campbell/dp/0500341958

 

There is also bound to be a museum somewhere with an Historical Brick Library and an enthusiastic chap or a lady looking like Fred Dibnah and / or Mary Beard looking after it.

 

There are also a frankly worrying number of blogs about lego bricks.

 

F

 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

Sorry I love this sort of nerd query :-).

 

The English Register of Listed Buildings has about 2400 entries which mention grey brick.

 

Here and put grey brick (no quotes, just the words) into the Text field:

https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/advanced-search?searchType=nhleadvancedsearch

 

Hopefully that will give you some relevant local examples.

 

Ferdinand