AdamSee Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Hi everyone. My names Adam and my wife and I have just bought a (new to us) 1930s semi-detatched house together. Well thats the boring bit over, the fun bit is that this house is a wreck, not the worst i've seen but not really liveable at the moment. We got it just before the cold snap and it had no heating, the wiring looks old with quite a few sockets around that only have two two pin holes, theres a hole in the roof and the shower has been disconnected because it leaked for so long that a timber behind it rotted to the point where, when I pushed my key in to it, i actually lost it. So......the shortened version of the plan is to fix it, extend it and rebuild part of it. Apart from some of the largest bits of it, most of the work will be done by myself. My experience is a bit limited, I renovated my last flat myself, but it was far easier than this. I want this house to be more than just comfortable, I want to know that at the end of it I did everything reasonably possible to make it energy efficient and low cost for the future. I intend on achieving this by insulating everything within reach, completely sealing up every air gap, using MVHR which will be in the loft and hopefully solar panels on the extension which will go to a battery unsure as to weather a heat battery or electrical one yet. Pictures should follow shortly showing what it currently looks like. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMitchells Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Great project! Looking forward to hearing all about it. Whereabouts in the country are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamSee Posted March 15, 2018 Author Share Posted March 15, 2018 15 minutes ago, TheMitchells said: Great project! Looking forward to hearing all about it. Whereabouts in the country are you? Thanks, Im south of London. But still some way from it. Right, picture time... So apparently I don't actually have a picture of the front of the house, but heres the back, just as good really. As you may have noticed, it has lovely pebble dashing, a lean to verander with a gutter that empties on to the grass and a very damp utility and porch stuck on the side. The long term plan is extend the house backwards similar to the neighbours, but to have the roof wrap around the side and include a rebuilt porch and utility. I've poorly drawn a few floor plans, excuse the missing info like doors and windows. I usually lay tracing paper over these and draw all the little bits and alterations by hand. Just to list the rooms on the ground floor we have the front rooms 1 & 2, These along with the upstairs bedrooms are my starting point, in about 2 months I need to have these 3 rooms in a liveable state as we intend on moving in to get our much desired private space back. 8 & 9 are the porch and utility, 5 Is the hallway, 6 downstairs toilet, 4 is the kitchen, 3 is the living room, 10 & 11 are the bedrooms and 12 is the Jack and Jill bathroom. Altho we want this extension (also needs a new roof) it could be a year before we get started with it, and as we need out private space back I plan to start working on the front of the house first as any future work should not disrupt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Welcome oh great one(s) from South of London! (We are East of London - in Kent, just so you know its not Essex) Looks like a great little project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamSee Posted March 15, 2018 Author Share Posted March 15, 2018 Sorry having to split the first few bits in to multiple posts because it makes my life easier. Right so the property is apparently already cavity wall insulated. But the bay at the front is a solid wall and because this is north facing my plan is to internally insulate it to keep it as warm as possible. Right, so maths isn't really my strong point here so working out bits such as U values is really done using online calculators, which is fine, but none of them seem to have the scenario of wanting to add insulation to a wall with blown insulation in it, so i'm guessing somewhat here (any help would be appreciated here). So starting with the box room which is 2.9m x 2.2m the plan is to internally insulate the walls with 50 PIR which will fixed one way or another to the external walls currently undecided on the method to use (please feel free to poke holes in this plan). So heres how I've started out so far. Most of the plaster came off pretty easy, had some issues with the cavity wall insulation falling out so left the window reveals in until I get some cavity closers in. Weird thing with the little window, theres no lintel holding up the external bricks, not sure to do with this. Its only got 3 rows of bricks until you get to a roof timber. Ironically, the other two walls in the room I only removed the wall paper but it took longer than chipping the plaster and turns out it all need to come down anyway. Next jobs are to pull down the ceiling, lift the floor then start building up again and making air tight as I go. One thing I'm still a bit puzzled over is how to fit sockets without ruining the internal insulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamSee Posted March 15, 2018 Author Share Posted March 15, 2018 14 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said: Welcome oh great one(s) from South of London! (We are East of London - in Kent, just so you know its not Essex) Looks like a great little project. Thanks, well were actually classed as living in Croydon, I just haven't come to terms with it yet, and still struggle to admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 8 hours ago, AdamSee said: Croydon I worked there for a few years in the early 1980s - then they let me out. Just console yourself with the thought that somebody has to live there else the place would be empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Hi and welcome to the forum. Good luck with your project. Your place looks positively palatial compared to the last house we renovated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stones Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Hi and welcome Adam. Have you considered running a dedicated blog of your project? If you PM @BuildHub our wonderful admin can sort out blog posting rights for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StructuralEngineer Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Hi @AdamSee and welcome to the forum! Is the external skin brickwork supported on the UPV window frame? It looks like you have a cast concrete lintel for the inner leaf of blockwork, then a cavity, then just the window frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Hi and welcome to the forum. On a brick walled house you do the wiring by chasing a channel in the brick fitting the cable behind capping and re plaster. Are you sure it's cavity wall? unusual for 1930's most of that period were solid 9" walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudda Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Welcome. Sounds like a great project. The stage you're at is probably the most interesting and most exciting as you've so many options and possibilities. I wish you all the best. My thoughts in no particular order. As it's an old house it's going to be draughty and cold so would you consider externally insulating it rather than internal? You could add a lot more insulation (think 150mm or even more) without loosing area and would make the house look new when complete. Great way to get rid of that dated pebble dash. Do the front and side and don't do the back until you are ready for the rear extension. Looking at the back I'm presuming it's not protected or has any special features so external is doable. You could connect the external insulation up into the roof when you need to fix that. The whole house would be instantly warmer not just one or two rooms. Internally I'd put airtight membrane then a 2x1 batten for cables and a service cavity and then plasterboard. Alternatively you could just wet plaster it internally or I've seen a lot of refurb houses use the outer layer of plaster as the airtight layer and tape the windows and roof membrane to it to create an airtight layer. Might be tricky in your case with the pebble dash. So many options. I'd think them all thorough before going to far ahead with the internal plasterboard route. Best of luck and keep us updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamSee Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 12 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said: I worked there for a few years in the early 1980s - then they let me out. Just console yourself with the thought that somebody has to live there else the place would be empty. If the place was empty it would be nicer. 10 hours ago, StructuralEngineer said: Hi @AdamSee and welcome to the forum! Is the external skin brickwork supported on the UPV window frame? It looks like you have a cast concrete lintel for the inner leaf of blockwork, then a cavity, then just the window frame. The window actually has a large gap between it and the first course of bricks, theres not even any screws going up. All the window fitters in the past have probably seen this and avoided drilling up. Im surprised that drilling holes in it for the cavity insulation didn't shake them loose. 10 hours ago, ProDave said: Hi and welcome to the forum. On a brick walled house you do the wiring by chasing a channel in the brick fitting the cable behind capping and re plaster. Are you sure it's cavity wall? unusual for 1930's most of that period were solid 9" walls. Would you recommend something similar for walls with internal insulation? I don't really want to be cutting holes and making cold spots on the external walls but I dont have much of a choice in some places. The rest are easy because im stripping back all the walls and will clip and cap to the walls and dot and dab over the top. Im ddefiantly sure its cavity wall, can see straight in to it around the window reveals. 10 hours ago, Dudda said: Welcome. Sounds like a great project. The stage you're at is probably the most interesting and most exciting as you've so many options and possibilities. I wish you all the best. My thoughts in no particular order. As it's an old house it's going to be draughty and cold so would you consider externally insulating it rather than internal? You could add a lot more insulation (think 150mm or even more) without loosing area and would make the house look new when complete. Great way to get rid of that dated pebble dash. Do the front and side and don't do the back until you are ready for the rear extension. Looking at the back I'm presuming it's not protected or has any special features so external is doable. You could connect the external insulation up into the roof when you need to fix that. The whole house would be instantly warmer not just one or two rooms. Internally I'd put airtight membrane then a 2x1 batten for cables and a service cavity and then plasterboard. Alternatively you could just wet plaster it internally or I've seen a lot of refurb houses use the outer layer of plaster as the airtight layer and tape the windows and roof membrane to it to create an airtight layer. Might be tricky in your case with the pebble dash. So many options. I'd think them all thorough before going to far ahead with the internal plasterboard route. Best of luck and keep us updated. I did consider external insulation and currently still considering it. Cant imagine the cost would actually be too bad, just because its not really a large area. Few issues I can think of is that the roof doesn't overhang the wall my more than 6 inches for some parts along the front and the upstairs bay window has a tiled front, would happily loose these though. At least with internal I can do it myself and in the front living room I can make a small void around the bay area which I can use for routing radial ducting which would look unnoticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Greetings. Near Sevenoaks here. I used to work a bit in Croydon and (shudders) the Roundshaw Estate, Wallington. Best thing was the road home if the van was still in one piece! You're in the best place for advice here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 24 minutes ago, AdamSee said: If the place was empty it would be nicer. Yes but imagine the property price slump that would ensue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 13 hours ago, AdamSee said: Would you recommend something similar for walls with internal insulation? I don't really want to be cutting holes and making cold spots on the external walls but I dont have much of a choice in some places. The rest are easy because im stripping back all the walls and will clip and cap to the walls and dot and dab over the top. Im ddefiantly sure its cavity wall, can see straight in to it around the window reveals. If you are fitting internal insulation then you would create a service void for cables etc then plasterboard. Be very careful dry lining and insulating internally. so many people do it poorly and create a "plasterboard tent" By that we mean a layer of plasterboard with an air gap behind it and that air gap is open to outside either through gaps around the windows to actually open to the loft. I work as an electrician and lots of old cottages around here are like that, and on a windy day if you unscrew a socket or switch from the wall, a howling cold gale comes out of the hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I can't tell from the pic on my phone what your windows are, guessing ali or upvc. I feel your pain ref the gaps. My place has some retro fitted upvc 2G ones but the gaps left by the fitters are horrific. I only found out how bad when I had to remove the glued on upvc trim in the bathroom. They used no foam etc just the frame fixings. Guessing the rest of the windows of that make here are the same. Expanding foam is what I've used here to fill the gap in the above photo. I have recently fitted my first couple of upvc window to replace old wooden windows. The first one I used foam but on the second I used comriband which I think is perhaps better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamSee Posted March 25, 2018 Author Share Posted March 25, 2018 Unfortunately progress has been dead slow recently and so I've only managed to squeeze in 1 day of work in the last week and a half. So started with ripping out the old ceiling lath. Its only a small room but dam its a horrible job. Everything looks in good condition with space to fit insulation, downlights and ducting for the ventilation. But does anyone know why one off my roof/floor joists has this white coloured dust on only one side of the joist? The timber isn't rotten as its still solid, just unsure as to whats wrong with it. The plan is to starting wiring over the long weekend so I've got 2 other rooms to completely gut still and not much time to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamSee Posted April 8, 2018 Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 So I've made some progress recently. Got the two front rooms nearly completely stripped . Typically, one easy job has evolved in to several larger jobs. I started one job which was sorting out all the wirings hanging around in the bed room, only to find that some of the cables were so old that they snapped when bent and were still live, tried to chase them back to the next junction only to more horrors awaiting me such as lifting some of the floor boards and realising that they were running under a brick wall and actually supporting it. Fortunately my electrician friend has made my wiring "safe" for me by disconnecting everything and leaving me two working sockets...woo. Finally got around to speaking to my neighbours who let me know that over xmas an alarm in the property kept going off (we didn't own it at this point), turns out it was the CO alarm, so off the gas goes too. Owell, wasn't using it, this is what the place looks like at the moment. Found that the front room has a surprisingly large RSJ in it, pretty rare for a 1930 place. Got a suspicious crack above the door as well, the door frame is pretty out of square and the door keeps jamming, it got so bad that while trying to open it I had ripped the door handle off trapping myself is the room. Worryingly this is a load bearing wall. The bedroom is my next job to tackle, pulled down the wood lath wall exposing the eves. Going to insulate the eves and extended the cupboard behind it giving myself some space to stash suitcase and the usual junk that wont go through the loft hatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 (edited) I'm guessing that I beam isn't original... It doesn't sit on a cast padstone on anything. Done by a previous homeowner or his "builder" friend without any SE input maybe? Edited April 8, 2018 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StructuralEngineer Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 That beam seating doesn't look good. It's at the edge of the wall without a padstone, so if one brick goes, everything goes. I'd suggest you get a structural engineer in to take a look asap. You mentioned a door frame sticking. If it's the opening adjacent to this beam -- I'd stay out of the building for now -- as it indicates progressive movement, so the wall (beam bearing) may be failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 As above re: the beam - almost certainly a later addition and not original, clearly put in by someone with little understanding of bearing stress................. With the uPVC windows and absence of lintels above the outer brickwork, this is a fairly common problem. A lot of older houses were designed with strong timber window frames that incorporated what amounted to a timber lintel within the outer frame itself in order to support the brick work of the outer skin - the window frames were built into the walls as the outer skin was built, then glazed later. Many after market uPVC installers just ignore this and slap a new uPVC window in without providing proper steel support to replace that which was provided by the timber window frame. If this is the case, then sometimes you can see signs of the outer brick skin bowing down. It's fixable, if it is the case with your installation, by several means, some more intrusive than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickie Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 On 15/03/2018 at 22:45, AdamSee said: Croydon I’m in SE25,last postcode before Croydon. Believe me,the local wrong uns don’t behave any better because they’re in ‘London’ & not Croydon. On 16/03/2018 at 09:00, ProDave said: Hi and welcome to the forum. On a brick walled house you do the wiring by chasing a channel in the brick fitting the cable behind capping and re plaster. Are you sure it's cavity wall? unusual for 1930's most of that period were solid 9" walls. At a quick glance,all the exposed brickwork is stretcher bond which would 90% guarantee it’s a cavity. Ive seen cavity built houses going back to mid/late Victorian,but they really took off after WW1,partly to make up for all the bricklayers who didn’t come back. Internal skin of brickwork could be built by apprentices with a little supervision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamSee Posted April 9, 2018 Author Share Posted April 9, 2018 Hmmm....I will have to get a picture from the other side of the rsj to show you. But what your saying dosn't sound very good, I think it may be time to get some professional advice for sure. The door frame with the crack is as shown on the ground floor plan at the start of this post. It's on the wall which is perpendicular to the rsj in room 1, it does seem to have a good footing in the wall, but its definitely not on a pad stone, Its just sat on the brick, Some additional concerns that I have relate back to the room above this one, where the bay window wall has a crack either side of the bay running vertically from the window down to the floor. Again, will have to take some more photos tomorrow to show you all. If I had to guess, I would put money on the fact that a structural engineer has never stepped foot in this house. Hopefully the builder who's coming around soon can offer useful advice and not just try to take me for a fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, AdamSee said: If I had to guess, I would put money on the fact that a structural engineer has never stepped foot in this house. Hopefully the builder who's coming around soon can offer useful advice and not just try to take me for a fool. Do come back, in detail with what the builder suggests. He might be as "knowledgable" about structures as the original who put that RSJ in , very persuasive / out to make a quick buck or he may be very good. At the end of the day he's not an SE. I presume your survey didn't pick anything up was it just a basic one? Edited April 10, 2018 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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