Toilet pan for soil pipe at 180mm - HELP (and a warning for others)

[BotusBuild]

This serves as a warning to all new self builders, who will likely see it when too late, and also to try and get myself out of a bind.

TL;DR - make sure the outlet of your pan (typically at 180-185mm centre !!!!!!!!!, or roughly 130mm from floor level) can be connected to your soil pipe without having to go UPHILL!!

 

Basically, I have a swept T where the T part comes up to 180mm (maybe a little lower) from the floor level (the one with the cap to the right in the picture below). By the time we have fitted the final floor it might be about 170mm, so still about 40mm higher than practically every floor standing pan available on the market. Second major mistake is that lot is now behind a plastered wall. Honestly, I don't think I could have f&*%ked this up more. I am furious with myself.

 

 

Anyway, options as I see it are:

1. Lower the soil pipe into which the swept T is fitted. I am not going down this route
2. The swept T has a seal on it. Option 2 is to cut the part with the seal away from the pipe, shortening the pipe, maybe by enough to get to about 150mm from dfloor level
3. Raise the floor level "locally" by 40-50mm for a floor standing pan to sit on (SWMBO's preferred type of toilet pan)
4. Fit a wall hung toilet pan which I can set to the height of my choosing (SWMBO thinks they look too commercial. It has been discussed and there may be a chink of light in the armour 🙂 )
5. Completely rejig the en-suite layout and pipework, which would include having to re-route the soil pipe from the cloakroom that is directly above this mess (it's currently behind that insulation).

 

So, apart from calling me an utter f*&%tard, which I deserve right now, please can anyone provide some kind enlightenment to the snivelling self builder in the corner?

 

Thanks

Edited May 10 by BotusBuild
Changed subject

[Alan Ambrose]

I feel for you. I spent ages searching for a replacement toilet for my mum's place which had the pan connector at the right level.

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, BotusBuild said:

Fit a wall hung toilet pan which I can set to the height of my choosing (SWMBO thinks they look too commercial. It has been discussed and there may be a chink of light in the armour 🙂 )

Vanity was an Italian import, but imo the hung pans look very exclusive. Plenty of shapes and sizes to choose from. 

[-rick-]

46 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

imo the hung pans look very exclusive.

 

Easier to clean around too.

[Nickfromwales]

49 minutes ago, -rick- said:

 

Easier to clean around too.

Yup. No grotty silicone to scrub the pee from

 

Beer reduces accuracy…….

[MikeSharp01]

I guess all this means that the height of the seat can be anything or are there limits? I have an issue in that although the pipe is low enough I cannot get the pan back far enough with the pipe running onwards to the ensuite shower so I am looking to lift it up.

 

[BotusBuild]

I think there limits Mike. Not sure what they are.

There are various connectors that you can buy to link the outlet of the pan to the soil pipe. 

[Mr Punter]

If you go wall hung, get the pan and frame on site before you set up the pipework, as the height of the flush pipe and pan connector are important.

[Temp]

22 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

If you go wall hung, get the pan and frame on site before you set up the pipework, as the height of the flush pipe and pan connector are important.

+1 The distance between the two pipes isn't a standard either. Different pans have slightly different gaps.

 

[BotusBuild]

It looks like the frame only comes with wall fixings for a "solid" wall and they look too short for a Nudura ICF wall.

 

Has anyone fitted such a frame to a Nudura ICF wall (polystyrene)?

 

Did you use:

1. threaded rod resined into the concrete?

2. Something like a rawlplug bolt?

3. Added some other solid material over the polystyrene to attach the frame to?

[Mr Punter]

You can fit the frame into the timber studwork.

[Nickfromwales]

5 hours ago, BotusBuild said:

It looks like the frame only comes with wall fixings for a "solid" wall and they look too short for a Nudura ICF wall.

 

Has anyone fitted such a frame to a Nudura ICF wall (polystyrene)?

 

Did you use:

1. threaded rod resined into the concrete?

2. Something like a rawlplug bolt?

3. Added some other solid material over the polystyrene to attach the frame to?

Resin some bolts in or use Rawl/Hilti bolts, and she’s there for life. 
 

Leave threads exposed which are long enough to reach the fitting, and chop off to length as required.

 

Can be fortified by removing the EPS and replacing it compacfoam 400, to the same depth as the EPS or a bit more if that prevents cutting it excessively, and bolt through that and into the concrete to create a solid CF > timber wallplate. 

[BotusBuild]

5 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

You can fit the frame into the timber studwork.

Will look at this option once we have the offending article delivered, and I've cursed myself again for being a c0ck before removing the plasterboard 🙂 

[Spinny]

If in doubt, suck it.

(Never say that to SWMBO)

 

Available from NASA - makes a good conversation piece when entertaining dinner guests.

[BotusBuild]

Update: (or "Christ, the f*&K up gets worse")

We ordered a wall hung toilet.

 

Having cut a hole in the skimmed plasterboard I was reminded that there was another pipe (behind that insulation in the picture) in the way of mounting the Grohe frame. Feck it.

So, tomorrow, I pick up another bunch of bends and create the latest water flume (not open to the public for rides!!) to re-route that downpipe, from the cloakroom above, towards the corner (to the left) so the frame will fit in to allow the wall hung toilet to empty into the visible socket  on the right in the picture.

Also, the brown pipe will be replaced by a Y junction, and so the white waste pipe and black boss will also have to be refitted.

 

Time for a🍺

[crispy_wafer]

Keep going, you’ll get there!

[Nickfromwales]

37 minutes ago, BotusBuild said:

Update: (or "Christ, the f*&K up gets worse")

We ordered a wall hung toilet.

 

Having cut a hole in the skimmed plasterboard I was reminded that there was another pipe (behind that insulation in the picture) in the way of mounting the Grohe frame. Feck it.

So, tomorrow, I pick up another bunch of bends and create the latest water flume (not open to the public for rides!!) to re-route that downpipe, from the cloakroom above, towards the corner (to the left) so the frame will fit in to allow the wall hung toilet to empty into the visible socket  on the right in the picture.

Also, the brown pipe will be replaced by a Y junction, and so the white waste pipe and black boss will also have to be refitted.

 

Time for a🍺

 

 

............but apart from that it's all going swimmingly.

 

A pic without the insulation would help, and why doesn't the white pipe tag into the soil in the boxing in?

[BotusBuild]

10 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

and why doesn't the white pipe tag into the soil in the boxing in?

That part is going to have to be boxed in anyway. 

[BotusBuild]

The red lines are bends and junctions, the yellow are bits of pipe. The white waste pipe will likely go into the pipe between the Y junction and the lower 45 bend

[crispy_wafer]

just to clarify for me, or to confirm, now that the picture shows more, you wanted to plumb the toilet into the the fitting into the cap?  So the location of the pan will be there.  And all that will be behind boxing when completed, yes?  If that's the case I think there's a definately a way you can reconfigure that so you can bring the toilet exit horizontally with a slight fall and have the vertical stack interface so it doesnt impede or interupt the flush.  Haven't got my crayons but that's where my mind is heading

[BotusBuild]

1 hour ago, crispy_wafer said:

now that the picture shows more, you wanted to plumb the toilet into the the fitting into the cap?

And all that will be behind boxing when completed, yes

Correct. The issue is the vertical pipe as it is impinges on where the frame is by about 90mm, so has move to the left. 

 

There is another waste pipe that comes in bottom right.

 

I think my plan is the simplest way round this and should also cut out some of the noise of falling stuff from above 😀

[BotusBuild]

The after shot.

 

@Nickfromwales, your wish is my command regarding the waste pipe. Tomorrow's jobbie 🤣

 

[Nickfromwales]

3 hours ago, BotusBuild said:

The after shot.

 

@Nickfromwales, your wish is my command regarding the waste pipe. Tomorrow's jobbie 🤣

 

Good man!

 

The grey T to the far right......... Does that boss any waste pipes out the back of it?