Sticky Hep2O Manifold valves

[TerryE]

I installed my HEP2O system courtesy of @Nickfromwales guidance about 9 years ago.  I have a one pipe-per-tap/appliance design, all fed from a central manifold setup (see image below).  It works brilliantly: no hidden pipe joins to fail, any tap or appliance can be isolated at the central manifolds. 

 

I have one bugbear: the "easy to turn" taps are no longer easy to turn.  So once every few years, I have to go through every isolation valve and crank it through the full travel using a rubber strap wrench - but with only perhaps a 30° stroke, this is a time consuming total pain.   (Luckily, all potable water goes through a Harvey filter, so there is pretty much no pipe fur problem.)  I started doing this because I needed to isolate one tap urgently after a failure and found I could no longer turn the value by hand, so ended up isolating the entire cold side, losing head at a tap then I could crank it in slow time, before turning the isolator open again.  

 

So my Q to all those out there who have the same HEP2O manifold setup:  what do you do here?    Do you bother doing an annual travel cycle?  Do you have a key to turn these?  If so what? 

 

I can't find a suitable turnkey online and Waverin doesn't seem to sell one.  I did think about 3D printing a F/F key cap to ½" socket adaptor, so I can use a socket wrench on them.

Suggestions gratefully received.  Thanks.

Edited yesterday at 15:16 by TerryE

[JohnMo]

Not so good. But it prompted me to do an exercise on my non Hep2O manifolds valves (after 5 years).

 

Sorry can't help answer the question. But have you tried a socket or ring spanner?

 

 

[TerryE]

@JohnMo.  I've taken off one of the taps to have a close look. It is ~26mm in outer dia with a 8×2mm step knurl on it for "easy grip" (giving a 22mm smaller dia) .  It would be easy to turn a singleton by hand because I could get a finger lock on it, but this isn't the case  in-situ where I have 8+ in a row with return pipework in the way and in the case of the hot manifold a lagged box surround, so at best I can get end-finger access, giving bugger-all torque and not enough to overcome stiction. 

 

As I said, a rubber strap wrench works but only has a 25-30° in-place travel. The taps themselves are injection-molded plastic, so clamping with a normal adjustable will just wreck the tap surface.  The ×8 step knurl is a poor match to standard spanners and adjustable wrenches which are designed for 120° / ×6 or ×12 symmetry.

 

One option for "annual" maintenance is to unscrew/remove each plastic tap and just use the steel ¼" square spigot, but I really need a tap female-female square so i can turn it with one of my ratchet wrenches.

Edited yesterday at 16:34 by TerryE

[SimonD]

That's an annoying problem. I can't really help other than for others to say that as far as I can, I avoid gate valves and other valves that require turning like these as they always seem to foul and stiffen up. I use full bore lever ball valves nowadays, even they are sometimes stiff to close.

[Oz07]

I never had this problem after 5 years. Even more annoying for you if you're softening the water prior. What is likely cause? Suppose you could swap the manifold after 10 years and consider it a consumable. 

[dpmiller]

3d print a tool to sit over the head like a socket?

[Nickfromwales]

@TerryE, I think it’s just ‘life’ and would be far less problematic if you had better access to get your kits on it more robustly. 
 

Beware using a ratchet as that apply way too much torque and wreck the manifold, but I’d certainly look at getting a long screwdriver and welding on a tip that fits the square shaft, or, as above, 3D print a key.

You could probably buy some aluminium tube and just hand cut some castellations into the end of it to create a Hep-spanner. I doubt those teeth would need to be more than 5mm deep vs the full depth of the tap heads.
 

Have you emailed Wavin to see if they do a spanner for this?  

[TerryE]

29 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

I think it’s just ‘life’ and would be far less problematic if you had better access to get your kits on it more robustly. 

This is a bit of a 20-20 hindsight thought.  The layout is what it is: all neatly boxed in and decorated.  For repeat or about-to offenders, I  would add ease of access to the tap line as a checklist item.  This really wasn't as issue for me during commissions as they were easy to turn then.  

 

3D printing sound like an easy solution -- at least for my son-in-law who has a 3D a pinter -- until you add in the learning curve and hassle of doing the 3D cad etc. for the key (it isn't on Thingiverse).

 

Gemini suggested putting a bolt in the end of a 28mm end-feed cap and using 2-part epoxy plus a greased tap to make a female.  I also though about using 22 mm endfeed T and toothing the middle branch as you suggest to form a T bar overkey -- except that Jan had a clear-out,  and gave away all my odds and sods plumbing bits on the rationale: "we'll never be doing any more plumbing ourselves, but if nec, then Screwfix 
is only a 10 min drive away".

How do you deal with sticky 10-year old HEP2O manifold jobs? 

Edited yesterday at 19:45 by TerryE

[torre]

Are you leaving them fully open? I usually open a valve like this and then back it off maybe half a turn.

[Gone West]

Won't a standard 8 point socket fit?

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, Gone West said:

Won't a standard 8 point socket fit?

@TerryE could just take the wheel heads off the manifolds and push them into a heated socket, melting them into compliance, and then refit them all and use the socket. 
 

Or one of those DIY multi-sockets which have a load of finger pins, which allegedly grab any size nut with a locally sized ‘socket’. 

[Nickfromwales]

If you post a head off the an established 3D printers they can do the design and production. 

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, torre said:

Are you leaving them fully open? I usually open a valve like this and then back it off maybe half a turn.

Ditto. Always done this with everything other than 1/4 turn isolators. 

[dpmiller]

5 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

If you post a head off the an established 3D printers they can do the design and production. 

someone here might even be able to do it.

[Nickfromwales]

35 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

someone here might even be able to do it.

Thanks for the suggestion. I’ve made it so! 
 

 

[ProDave]

What sort of shaft comes out of the valve (with the plastic knob removed)  THAT is what I would be looking to buy / make a tool to fit.

 

Applying more torque to a stiff valve via the plastic handle is likely to break the plastic handle.  Bypass the weak link and drive direct on the the (assumed) metal shaft.

[TerryE]

5 hours ago, ProDave said:

What sort of shaft comes out of the valve (with the plastic knob removed) 

It's a std square spigot that you see on older taps and stopcock butterflies.  I've packed up for the night, so can't be bothered to get out my micrometer to measure it. As I posted on the referenced topic, I made up a little tool (that sits tightly over the knurled tap) using a 28mm copper pipe offcut.  This issue is the the valve are sticky rather that stuck.  I can't get a decent closed hand grip on them but rather just a finger grip, so say about 1-2 Nm torque rather than the 10× that you can easily do with finger locked hand grip.

 

The tool can easily take 20 Nm say, so is fine for the job as you only need about a quarter of that.  It's easy to hand crank each valve though its full normal range a couple of times to  loosen it up before leaving it at full-open (less the ¼ turn-back) as @torre suggests.

 

o  

[ProDave]

I guess the key to this is exercise the valves regularly.  Just as I do with the sea cocks on my boat.