Guy Martin’s House Without Bills

[MAB]

"Guy's rolling up his sleeves as he explores how to make your home cheaper to heat. Using all his engineering experience, can Guy make energy bills a thing of the past?"

"Guy Martin attempts to transform a 1930s semi-detached property into an eco home with no energy bills. The 90-minute programme, Guy Martin’s House Without Bills, will follow Guy's nine-month renovation of an average family home in Trafford, with the ultimate aim of driving its gas and electricity bills as low as possible. Whilst taking on the ambitious project, he also shows viewers how to reduce their rising energy costs with a range of advice and tips for any household wanting to cut bills and carbon emissions from their home, regardless of their budget."

https://www.channel4.com/programmes/guy-martins-house-without-bills

 

I watched this programme with some interest but i think the Home Building Industry will have to raise the general levels of on-site accuracy, specialist training, apprenticeships, quality control inspections and recruit/improve installation/construction skills in the UK workforce.....

 

 

 

 

[JohnMo]

6 minutes ago, MAB said:

Guy Martin attempts to transform a 1930s semi-detached property into an eco home with no energy bills. 

He doesn't attempt, they film a team doing it and does a little bit of hands on.

 

It was interesting but...

[Nickfromwales]

It's like picking one single grain of sand off a beach and polishing it for a few hours and saying it's a diamond.

 

As above, it's just not achievable as nobody has enough GIF to do absolutely amazing work for the same price as someone else making it a bag of shit.

 

Public just won't or can't spend this amount on capital 'adventure', especially if they're not living there for the rest of their lives, which they'd need to do for the ROI.

 

Great TV though, I'm sure, ......as is GD.......  

[markharro]

I think it was a really important programme actually. Guy Martin is the modern day Fred Dibnah and people will sit up and take notice. Yes of course a 6 figure renovation is niche but the pre-fab terraces are the real takeaway message. We can and we should be building quality stuff like this and not the absolute C%$p that is the standard new build or indeed old build.

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, markharro said:

I think it was a really important programme actually. Guy Martin is the modern day Fred Dibnah and people will sit up and take notice. Yes of course a 6 figure renovation is niche but the pre-fab terraces are the real takeaway message. We can and we should be building quality stuff like this and not the absolute C%$p that is the standard new build or indeed old build.

Not saying we shouldn't  Look at what we promote here, with everyone contributing to help the next chap.

 

"Can" is down to cost, "Niche" comes with a price tag, and often the goal not being achieved by corner-cutting or commercial bean-counting, or lazy trades getting a newer, elevated wage, to still turn out crap.

[craig]

I hate to say it, we don't have the standard of workmanship or mass builders capable of achieving it. Training the trades will take a long time and a lot of "we know better attitude". All of them do the builds on the cheap, cut corners where and when they can. As an example, I wouldn't trust Bellway to run a bath.

 

Smaller more independent builders have come a long way but in my opinion, we are still miles behind achieving anything like this on a mass scale. The recent warm grant scheme should highlight the amount of charlatans that are around.

[SteamyTea]

3 hours ago, craig said:

Bellway

Misread that as Bellend.

[craig]

4 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Misread that as Bellend.

 

They are tbf.

[TheMitchells]

I thought the programme was pretty good in showing what could be done, as the vast majority of the public really have no idea.  So in that sense, i think it did a great job.  It was a shame that the church renovation cost was mentioned as over a million pounds!  That will put anyone off renovating to such a standard.  I know they did say it was unusually high but thats a number that people will remember. And they did not give an accurate figure for the Manchester house.  I love Guy Martins enthusiasm and his explanations/experiments were great.  

But as said before, it will take a long time for builders to even think about changing their methods, never mind training for it.

 

A friend has recently had to have her lounge floor joists replaced as there was no airbrick and the beams had rotted, with her floor dropping away from the skirting. As they fitted OSB to the beams, I mentioned to make sure the builder used airtight tape to seal the edges, to stop draughts before the new laminate was fitted but she was told it wasnt necessary/appropriate. I think it was a missed opportunity but then why should an experienced builder listen to a friend of the client - and a woman at that!

 

[MikeGrahamT21]

I mentioned it to one of my neighbours who is always going on about getting triple glazing despite having huge holes in her floor which she isn’t bothered about.

 

asked her what she thought to the program and she said…why are they messing around blocking all the holes up and then putting a machine in to pump air around, isn’t that what a chimney is for?

🙈 😫

 

I enjoyed it but like watching his programs on anything, his enthusiasm is great and also speaks my language (Yorkshire), a good intro to passive house for the uninitiated, I doubt people will be rushing out to upgrade any time soon though, majority see it as unnecessary, and that it’s on the government to bring down energy prices.

Edited 9 hours ago by MikeGrahamT21

[Nickfromwales]

3 minutes ago, MikeGrahamT21 said:

I mentioned it to one of my neighbours who is always going on about getting triple glazing despite having huge holes in her floor which she isn’t bothered about.

 

asked her what she thought to the program and she said…why are they messing around blocking all the holes up and then putting a machine in to pump air around, isn’t that what a chimney is for?

🙈 😫

 

I enjoyed it but like watching his programs on anything, his enthusiasm is great and also speaks my language (Yorkshire), a good intro to passive house for the uninitiated, I doubt people will be rushing out to upgrade any time soon though, majority see it as unnecessary, and that it’s on the government to bring down energy prices.

People, in general, would rather have a grossly expensive kitchen, nicer car, at least one holiday per annum, and a high gas bill.

 

Ignorance will remain blissful for a good few more years to come. 

[Iceverge]

Why do people resort entirely to emotions when making decisions about their own housing?

 

I have very bright friends with strong scientific backgrounds who consider airtightness and mechanical ventilation as some kind of voodoo. They refuse to do the sums or accept scientific papers with the same ferver as a creationist flat earther. 

 

What is it about our own homes that makes us morons? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SimonD]

5 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

I have very bright friends with strong scientific backgrounds who consider airtightness and mechanical ventilation as some kind of voodoo. They refuse to do the sums or accept scientific papers with the same ferver as a creationist flat earther. 

 

This whole thing is a bugbear of mine ever since I did the detail design of my house, which is so fundamentally different to most building methods that I've even had extensively long debates with the powers at be on the green building forum and the understanding here on BH is also narrow when it comes to the full understanding of ventilation in relation to moisture management and building physics, and particularly the differences and relationships between vapour permeability and hygroscopicity in the building fabric. This is why people still think I'm mad for designing my house to be low energy while also naturally ventilated.

But suffice it to say that when I not long ago had some people planning a self-build round to look at my house, they asked why would I seal the whole building up and then introduce air supply - the simple answer is of course so it's then properly controlled while also adequate for good indoor air quality. When explained it was good that they accepted this having seen it in practise.

 

13 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

What is it about our own homes that makes us morons? 

Well, that is the million dollar question when people try to calculate the roi of upgrades that will provide them with a lifetime of better comfort in their home (even if it costs a few quid, versus spunking goodness know how much on crap quality tack on extensions, kitchens and bathrooms every 10 or 15 years and trying to mask the problems with dehumidifiers, over-sized boilers and radiators etc. 

[billt]

27 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

Why do people resort entirely to emotions when making decisions about their own housing?

 

I think you'll find that almost all decisions that people make are primarily emotional, the rational justification comes later.

 

Actually disregarding heating costs isn't that irrational. Historically energy has been cheap in the UK and gas still is. Energy bills are likely to be much lower than the other costs associated with owning a house. Our council tax is over £3,400 (and going up 9% next year) our water rates are £920, energy costs are under £900. Energy would be about £2000 if we still used gas and didn't have PV and a battery. but even £2,000 isn't very high in context.

[Iceverge]

14 minutes ago, SimonD said:

 

This whole thing is a bugbear of mine ever since I did the detail design of my house, which is so fundamentally different to most building methods that I've even had extensively long debates with the powers at be on the green building forum and the understanding here on BH is also narrow when it comes to the full understanding of ventilation in relation to moisture management and building physics, and particularly the differences and relationships between vapour permeability and hygroscopicity in the building fabric. This is why people still think I'm mad for designing my house to be low energy while also naturally ventilated.

But suffice it to say that when I not long ago had some people planning a self-build round to look at my house, they asked why would I seal the whole building up and then introduce air supply - the simple answer is of course so it's then properly controlled while also adequate for good indoor air quality. When explained it was good that they accepted this having seen it in practise.

 

Well, that is the million dollar question when people try to calculate the roi of upgrades that will provide them with a lifetime of better comfort in their home (even if it costs a few quid, versus spunking goodness know how much on crap quality tack on extensions, kitchens and bathrooms every 10 or 15 years and trying to mask the problems with dehumidifiers, over-sized boilers and radiators etc. 

 

It's entirely possible to have good air quality without airtightness and mechanical ventilation, you will just use a lot of energy forcing air through the vents using convection. 

 

What kind of data do you have on your own house? 

 

 

 

 

 

[SimonD]

3 hours ago, Iceverge said:

It's entirely possible to have good air quality without airtightness and mechanical ventilation, you will just use a lot of energy forcing air through the vents using convection. 

 

Not necessarily, it depends on the ventilation strategy or mixture of strategy, of which buoyancy, is just one aspect. Mine mainly utilises pressure which is either vapour pressure difference or wind pressure. I do have a stack effect used for when it gets warm, and a limited stack from ground floor to first floor.

 

But one of the things often overlooked is how building a house which uses materials that buffer moisture significantly reduces the ventilation requirements of the space which in turn reduces the energy requirements, whether through heating incoming air, or running mechanical ventilation.

 

3 hours ago, Iceverge said:

What kind of data do you have on your own house? 

 

The calculated ventilation rate we have is about 0.38ACH and complies with building regulations minimum vent rates. Thermally, we now know that the building outperforms the calculated heat losses too. IAQ is fine. We've on a few occasions had raised CO2 but nothing to worry about at all. All the other measures like particulates etc. are always good, other than immediately after doing a load of dust inducing building work, but that clears pretty quickly.

[MikeGrahamT21]

8 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

People, in general, would rather have a grossly expensive kitchen, nicer car, at least one holiday per annum, and a high gas bill.

 

Ignorance will remain blissful for a good few more years to come. 

Totally agree, I suppose you can’t really show off low energy bills and great IAQ 😂 

 

the lady I was on about doesn’t believe in climate change, she tells me that it’s a natural cycle, but I suspect a lot of it comes from her favourite TV channel, GB News

[SteamyTea]

3 minutes ago, MikeGrahamT21 said:

lady I was on about doesn’t believe in climate change, she tells me that it’s a natural cycle

It is a natural cycle.  Increase the amount of CO₂ in the atmosphere and the global temperature will rise, well know science.  Eventually all the stored carbon and hydrocarbons will be burnt and, apart from a small contribution from volcanoes and rotting vegetation (if any left), the temperature will start to slowly decrease.

We are pretty certain we know how the Earth came out of the last ice age, but not seen too much research on how a planet cools from a CO_2e rich atmosphere.  Venus is not changing much.

Though I doubt that is how your friend views it.  Probably sees starving people in developing countries and thinks it is their own fault that crops have failed due to variable weather patterns, and if they were still a colony of ours then everything would be fine for them.

[SteamyTea]

7 hours ago, billt said:

Historically energy has been cheap in the UK and gas still is

While I agree that it is cheap, it has for the last 40 years or so been about 5% of household income, which is where it is at the moment.

Back in 1990, I was paying 10p/kWh for electricity.  So only doubled in last 35 years.  My wage has gone up more.