Does aerobarrier negate need for airtightness detailing?

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, SBMS said:

So AB after dot and dab? Would have thought having AB at the block layer would be best so pre PB?

Not if really as the results can only be better, the more area covered by dabs, and if the electrics and plumbing 1st fix is done then less trade interference after (risk of them undoing the goodness and then covering it over).

 

AB do say to get all 1st fix in, including MVHR ductwork to outside, but obvs you need to plug up everything connected to the MVHR or the product will push through the ductwork, unit, filters, HEx, condensate and more = MVHR death.

 

Depends who’s on site, who’s going to preserve everything as done, so basically you can decide this yourself.

 

On the project I shared pics of, the PB was off, but the client and trades were well programmed with the ‘not damaging of the AT layers’. 

[SBMS]

20 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Not if really as the results can only be better, the more area covered by dabs, and if the electrics and plumbing 1st fix is done then less trade interference after (risk of them undoing the goodness and then covering it over).

 

AB do say to get all 1st fix in, including MVHR ductwork to outside, but obvs you need to plug up everything connected to the MVHR or the product will push through the ductwork, unit, filters, HEx, condensate and more = MVHR death.

 

Depends who’s on site, who’s going to preserve everything as done, so basically you can decide this yourself.

 

On the project I shared pics of, the PB was off, but the client and trades were well programmed with the ‘not damaging of the AT layers’. 

Understand that first fix needs to be done (but this behind the PB typically).. but if we PB first then AB that puts the AT layer at the PB layer. If there are any cracks etc in plasterboard later then that’s a path that AB will miss? But if the AT layer is behind PB then boarding (with full perimeter dabs) can only increase airtightness? Or am I missing something

[Nickfromwales]

1 minute ago, SBMS said:

Understand that first fix needs to be done (but this behind the PB typically).. but if we PB first then AB that puts the AT layer at the PB layer. If there are any cracks etc in plasterboard later then that’s a path that AB will miss? But if the AT layer is behind PB then boarding (with full perimeter dabs) can only increase airtightness? Or am I missing something

You’re missing the size of the atomised product. Look at the pics, this stuff gets into cracks you can’t even see.

 

It’ll shoot around the back of the boards, down its neck, up its skirt, into nooks and crannies you didn’t even know you had. 
 

It’s a crazy thing to see tbh, but take my word for it, it’ll get into everywhere.

 

Also? Cracks in the plasterboard? 
 

Erm, plaster, 2 coats, and paint, several coats = zero cracks.

[SBMS]

10 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

You’re missing the size of the atomised product. Look at the pics, this stuff gets into cracks you can’t even see.

 

It’ll shoot around the back of the boards, down its neck, up its skirt, into nooks and crannies you didn’t even know you had. 
 

It’s a crazy thing to see tbh, but take my word for it, it’ll get into everywhere.

 

Also? Cracks in the plasterboard? 
 

Erm, plaster, 2 coats, and paint, several coats = zero cracks.

Okay fair enough (and you’re right my cracks comment was a bit stupid!)…. But if it does all that does it matter if the plasterboard is in place or not? Still Can’t see the benefit of doing it after boarding rather than before if all first fix is done?

[dpmiller]

doing it after boarding surely risks a "plasterboard tent" scenario?

[SBMS]

36 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

doing it after boarding surely risks a "plasterboard tent" scenario?

It seems Aerobarrier themselves recommend doing after plasterboarding. I guess if the system is designed to find air paths under pressure you want the physical model to be as close to the finished one as possible. Doing dot And dab would create a service cavity that changes the airflow And would potentially create leakage paths which weren’t present pre

PB??

[SteamyTea]

I think, based on this formula, t=(2h/g)^0.5, that better results would happen before plaster boarding.

I also think that the higher up the machine outlet is, the longer the latex will stay suspended in the local atmosphere.

[Nickfromwales]

14 hours ago, SBMS said:

Okay fair enough (and you’re right my cracks comment was a bit stupid!)…. But if it does all that does it matter if the plasterboard is in place or not? Still Can’t see the benefit of doing it after boarding rather than before if all first fix is done?

It won’t be the plasterboard that gets sealed by AB, that’s not how it works.

 

Dint think about this as a spray coating that covers all surfaces, because it very much isn’t / doesn’t. This is atomised and follows airflow, so is physically carried to any place that air is escaping.

 

This means it will go into socket back boxes, travel through the holes and gaps around them, and go directly to the masonry where air is being forced out.

 

The moment there’s no airflow, the product will stop going in that direction and look elsewhere.

 

2 hours ago, SBMS said:

It seems Aerobarrier themselves recommend doing after plasterboarding. I guess if the system is designed to find air paths under pressure you want the physical model to be as close to the finished one as possible. Doing dot And dab would create a service cavity that changes the airflow And would potentially create leakage paths which weren’t present pre

PB??

The least amount of exposed (treated) area that remains post-application, equals the lowest level of downstream ‘damage’ that can occur, thus preserving the best outcome.

 

Leakage paths just get followed, and then the source of the leak(s) subsequently get plugged, wherever they are. As the PB will be lifted up off the floor, and will have gaps all around it, the product will just whip past the boards and go straight behind them to seek and destroy!

 

2 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

I think, based on this formula, t=(2h/g)^0.5, that better results would happen before plaster boarding.

I also think that the higher up the machine outlet is, the longer the latex will stay suspended in the local atmosphere.

Nope. This is not a spray application, so does not hit what you point it at. This is a fog created by the mist heads and it’s just floating / suspended in air waiting to be guided by that air flowing somewhere.
 

The pics show how this system fogs the entire dwelling interior, and the BFO fan assists in disbursing this around, so it’s of zero relevance where the product gets introduced; but as you can see the tripods are up around shoulder height anyways.

 

I say tripods (plural) as they install a good few of these in key areas to entirely flood the premises. I assume this is to get the wet (uncured) product to its final destination asap to maximise its effectiveness.

 

Once the result was achieved and it was deemed “as good as it can get” the guys there mask up and go and open all the windows fully, and then switch the pumps off and blast the fan at full speed aka ‘purge’ as the fog just stays there.

 

After the test was done the residual product was still hanging around in there in abundance, airborne, so needed to be forced out.

 

Just wish I’d have thought of this tbh, as it’s damn impressive and so simple / effective.

 

I bet a lot of dogshit developers use this to get out of the cack. 

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

Nope. This is not a spray application, so does not hit what you point it at

So all surfaces get a coating then? The ceiling will have as much on it as the floor.

[Sparrowhawk]

56 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

So all surfaces get a coating then? The ceiling will have as much on it as the floor.

I'm assuming only bottom horizontal surfaces because it's not sticking to vertical surfaces, so it's not sticking but settling out onto the floor.

 

It sounds great but I wouldn't want to risk it in a furnished house!

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

So all surfaces get a coating then? The ceiling will have as much on it as the floor.

Erm….gravity steps in methinks  

 

Only the points of exit, and any flat surface get the product in / on them. 

[saveasteading]

4 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

a lot of dogshit developers use this to get out of the cack. 

or do they treat one unit and test it, then use that figure for the rest?

Someone on here said that isn't allowed these days but Im cynical.

[Nickfromwales]

9 hours ago, Sparrowhawk said:

I'm assuming only bottom horizontal surfaces because it's not sticking to vertical surfaces, so it's not sticking but settling out onto the floor.

 

It sounds great but I wouldn't want to risk it in a furnished house!

lol. Yes, I don’t think the Ming vases were out the day I was there   

 

They can do a finished house, but the list for prep is ‘a little longer’, but it can be done.

 

This is great news for anyone doing a retrofit MVHR and who wants the best results possible. Just needs dust-sheets a plenty  

[crispy_wafer]

Will be letting the AB guys loose on my build in the next few weeks.  I've Parged, taped, soudatighted and done a pretty decent job I think.  AB will be the icing on the cake before everything gets skimmed over.

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, crispy_wafer said:

AB guys loose on my build

See if you can get the chemical data sheet for the gunk. I fancy a retirement job and setting a machine up and running it for a few hours seems ideal.

[Tony L]

1 hour ago, crispy_wafer said:

Will be letting the AB guys loose on my build in the next few weeks.  I've Parged, taped, soudatighted and done a pretty decent job I think.  AB will be the icing on the cake before everything gets skimmed over.

 

Well done.  Getting to that stage must feel like an important milestone has been reached.  Please report back & let us all know how it goes.

[crispy_wafer]

15 minutes ago, Tony L said:

 

Well done.  Getting to that stage must feel like an important milestone has been reached.  Please report back & let us all know how it goes.

I've certainly taken my time getting to this point, i cant keep putting it off! 🤣

[Sparrowhawk]

3 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

See if you can get the chemical data sheet for the gunk. I fancy a retirement job and setting a machine up and running it for a few hours seems ideal.

Do these help?

• https://usceiling.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/AeroBarrier-X1-Sealant-Datasheet-and-SDS.pdf
• https://www.arcat.com/datasheets/aeroseal/AeroBarrier_X1_Sealant_Datasheet_and_SDS.pdf