Backland Development - Unadopted Road

[Cheesus]

Just a little update on this one on the offchance anybody is interested....

 

We had the fella from the council planning department round last week to do his site visit as part of our pre planning consultation. Now I am not sure how much they give away when inspecting and how much things like this will come down to his opinion or the opinion of the various agencies (Water company, Coal Board, Highways etc.) but he was very much of the opinion that if a rule/guideline/policy couldn't be complied with it would be a case of 'what are the real world implications of this' rather than a binary yes/no situation. The bins for example, he said so what to having to drag them longer than is ideal, the next plot along do it already and with regards to the lack of access for the fire appliance, as long as it is mitigated by an approved sprinkler system maybe with a water tank on the plot then this is likely to suffice in his opinion.

 

Now I know he may just be saying what we want to hear to avoid any awkward conversations but I suppose we will know more in the next month or so when the report is likely to come back at which point I will update further. 

 

Thanks. 

[saveasteading]

10 hours ago, Cheesus said:

saying what we want to hear

Doesn't sound that way: that all seems helpful.

[Oz07]

A planning inspector is not the same guy who will be the BCO and signing off the finished house. Just make sure they are okay before you start. 

[Cheesus]

4 hours ago, Oz07 said:

A planning inspector is not the same guy who will be the BCO and signing off the finished house. Just make sure they are okay before you start. 

 

Thanks, I assume the BCO who signs off though will be bound by the findings of the various agencies who will be consulted during the actual planning process? It's all a bit difficult for the layman to get his head round and not helped by lots of different people having differences of opinion, obviously I will pay proffessionals when the time comes but at the moment I am just trying to tiptoe my way through things without throwing too much money at it and afterall I am just a normal fella with a large back garden with some potential to build on it. 

 

One piece of advise I did receive from a builder friend was if we should ever be in a position to have a piece of land with planning permission, just sell it and let somebdoy else have the hassle - nothing worse than having your life savings invested in a pile of mud and being reliant on others. This obviously will rob us of the oppertunity to self build. 

[-rick-]

5 minutes ago, Cheesus said:

Thanks, I assume the BCO who signs off though will be bound by the findings of the various agencies who will be consulted during the actual planning process? 

 

You assume a joined up process. You assume wrongly. Plenty of things get through planning only to find they couldn't move forward because BC require something beyond what is reasonable to achieve on-site within the available money.

 

Edit to add: I looked at a plot for sale with planning a while ago. Positioned on a flood plain, requiring a build over agreement over the flood drainage infrastructure. Planning had conditions attached that basically said, 'you can build this if you can get agreement to do x y z'. Maybe it's possible to get that but it sure looked like an uphill struggle to me.

Edited yesterday at 14:38 by -rick-

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, -rick- said:

reasonable to achieve on-site within the available money.

That's your problem of course, not theirs.

The rules on such matters are fairly clear, so you should read up on the building reg's and look at similar projects nearby, as their planning applications will be available online.

If you can, make a formal proposal of how firefighting can be dealt with.  A sprinkler and/or a 10m3 tanks is very expensive.

In reality, fire engines are narrow and very manoeuvrable and can bring enough water for most incidents.   Can you show a turning space so that they can get out again forwards? If that is on a drawing then the fire authority might simply agree.

Bins. Don't let that be an objection. Show a bin enclosure near the entrance. Either available to the collectors or very near so that you can easily wheel them out.

[Cheesus]

28 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

That's your problem of course, not theirs.

The rules on such matters are fairly clear, so you should read up on the building reg's and look at similar projects nearby, as their planning applications will be available online.

If you can, make a formal proposal of how firefighting can be dealt with.  A sprinkler and/or a 10m3 tanks is very expensive.

In reality, fire engines are narrow and very manoeuvrable and can bring enough water for most incidents.   Can you show a turning space so that they can get out again forwards? If that is on a drawing then the fire authority might simply agree.

Bins. Don't let that be an objection. Show a bin enclosure near the entrance. Either available to the collectors or very near so that you can easily wheel them out.

 

The site won't allow for the turning of a fire appliance. The council has recently approved an application for a newbuild on a plot with similar access, the application mitigated the lack of access with the sprinkler system so this is why we went down this route. With regards to bins, we need to find out if putting a bin enclosure half way from the proposed new house and the road is possible, dunno what other residents would say. 

 

Thanks 

[ProDave]

I don't get this bin storage lark.

 

Our bin store is round the back of the house, where it is convenient for us to put rubbish from the house into them.

 

The night before bin day, we wheel the approporiate bin to the front of the house and place it adjacent to the road for collection, then bring it back afterwards.  I don't see what relevance this is to the planners where your bins reside when not awaiting collection?

[-rick-]

4 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I don't get this bin storage lark.

 

...

 

I don't see what relevance this is to the planners where your bins reside when not awaiting collection?

 

As the number of bins we need goes up the amount of space available to store them becomes a problem. While you both have the room and are concientious plenty of others either can't be arsed or space is an issue and that leads to bins being left in the street. I'd also guess that plenty of 'disgusted of Tunbridge Wells' type complaints about how unsightly bins are even if they aren't cluttering up the pavement.

 

One of those rules that matters greatly to a small plot in a city but seems a bit overkill on a large plot.

[Russell griffiths]

It’s 240m from my front door to the bin collection point, why does it matter where they are kept. 
it’s all this bollox that makes this country an utter shambles. 
 

 

[Oz07]

As I've said before on here I nearly come a cropper with this. Looked at a plot down narrow drive over 90m long. I don't even think you can mitigate with sprinkler over this length. I left it for the vendor to get me in writing off building control that they would approve. They never did and the plot is still for sale.

Don't assume bco will sign it off because planners said ok. Bco is technical and concerned with safety, planners aren't. It's a lot of money to spend to fall at final hurdle. 

[Cheesus]

Appreciate the feedback on both points. Firstly, reference bins - this is the relevent part of local planning policy I am told: 

 

 

With regards to fire engine access, this is the (fairly) recent application that was approved:

 

https://planning.wakefield.gov.uk/online-applications/simpleSearchResults.do?action=firstPage

 

Below is copied and pasted from the decision notice (I understand the manual for streets remains unchanged in relation to this): 

 

It is also noted that the proposed dwelling would be around 74m from the public highway and exceeds the recommended pumping and carrying distances for a fire appliance/refuse vehicle. The submitted highway statement states that it is proposed to install a fire sprinkler system within the new dwelling to negate the need for a large fire appliance to access the site. This satisfies the requirements in manual for streets. As noted with regards to outline consent 13/01088/OUT, it is recommended that this be secured by condition.

 

Google earth shows this house as now built, obviously we don't know if there are any ongoing issues with BCO or not.

 

 

Edited 22 hours ago by Cheesus

[saveasteading]

22 minutes ago, Cheesus said:

obviously we don't know if there are any ongoing issues with BCO or not.

or even if a system was installed.

otoh the bco may look at it and say the requirement is excessive as long as the appliance can reach the building... but you would not take a chance on that.

 

Have you space to put a big water tank underground. or  10 x IBC linked ?

[Cheesus]

11 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

or even if a system was installed.

otoh the bco may look at it and say the requirement is excessive as long as the appliance can reach the building... but you would not take a chance on that.

 

Have you space to put a big water tank underground. or  10 x IBC linked ?

 

I think we probable have space for a 25,000L tank, no idea about putting it underground or overground (wombling free).  It wouldn't be ideal but if it was the difference between getting something through and not we would go for it if it was an option and just work round it I would imagine. 

[saveasteading]

12 hours ago, Cheesus said:

probable have space for a 25,000L tank,

I think 10,000 is the usual requirement. Easy to find online. It's water so doesn't need to be double skinned. I the ground is usually cheapest and less unsightly.

Or 2 x 5,000 would bd as good.

Or 10 x IBC. Not so sure.

 

Also very easy to draw on your application.