March 5Mar 5 I expect there is a much simpler solution to this but I've seen someone on youtube build little motorised trolleys for their bins to take them out front. If you get stuck on this then something to consider. Having said that the one I've seen was based on a guide track and simple motors. If you don't own the road and can't alter it then you'd need something more sophisticated (and the more sophisticated the more difficult I guess it would be to get approval). I'd guess all you need is for something to make it easier for a less able person to move the bin.
March 5Mar 5 Gah, well this got on my mind so I went down a rabbit hole. There's a whole range of solutions out there: https://www.mastermover.com/applications/bin-mover https://bintowa.com/ https://www.industar.co.uk/product/tow-tugs-electric-movers/small/ https://wheelieezy.com.au/ https://emoveit.com.au/product/wheelie-bin-aluminium-trailers-3-x-240l-bins All look pricey or need a car/buggy but if its the difference between using the plot or not maybe worth it as a last resort.
March 5Mar 5 Author 31 minutes ago, -rick- said: Gah, well this got on my mind so I went down a rabbit hole. There's a whole range of solutions out there: https://www.mastermover.com/applications/bin-mover https://bintowa.com/ https://www.industar.co.uk/product/tow-tugs-electric-movers/small/ https://wheelieezy.com.au/ https://emoveit.com.au/product/wheelie-bin-aluminium-trailers-3-x-240l-bins All look pricey or need a car/buggy but if its the difference between using the plot or not maybe worth it as a last resort. Thanks, the MasterMover looks like it could fit the bill. No idea how the planning office would police it, we're hoping to self build and would be more than happy to drag the bins ourself but I suppose we can have one if it's the difference between getting planning or not. Just to add a bit more context, this was the emial exchange that followed the report: Highways have come back with the following: “Specifically on the bins, it wouldn’t be a “Highway Safety” reason, I’m not sure we could back it up sufficiently if challenged at appeal. It is however a major amenity issue and possibly discriminatory for those with disabilities. The applicant’s proposal that residents can just drag the bins 80+ metres is heavily reliant on the person being physically able to do so; essentially a restriction for the dwelling to only be available for those who are fully able-bodied. Even then it would still be inconvenient.” I would be minded to agree with that position. Whilst the proposal would not be severely harmful to highways safety contra to Para 116 of the NPPF, I do think there would be grounds for a recommendation of refusal on the basis that the bin pull distance would be very inconvenient and contrary to Section 2.27.02 of the RDG (Pt 1), Section 12.6 of the SDG and Policy LP56(j). Happy to discuss internally if you this would help?
March 5Mar 5 3 minutes ago, Cheesus said: Thanks, the MasterMover looks like it could fit the bill. No idea how the planning office would police it, we're hoping to self build and would be more than happy to drag the bins ourself but I suppose we can have one if it's the difference between getting planning or not. Just to add a bit more context, this was the emial exchange that followed the report: Based on what they say, maybe it would be sufficient to provide storage space/charging connection for an electric assistance device to move the bins, without actually committing to purchase one?
March 5Mar 5 5 minutes ago, Cheesus said: Thanks, the MasterMover looks like it could fit the bill. TBH after looking at the others they seemed less suitable. They seem to require custom trays for the bins and they are focussed on bigger commercial size bins. But seems to be plenty of options so I'm sure you can find something if it's acceptable as a solution.
March 5Mar 5 Author 7 minutes ago, -rick- said: Based on what they say, maybe it would be sufficient to provide storage space/charging connection for an electric assistance device to move the bins, without actually committing to purchase one? Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. It's the only issue / potential issue against the development so hopefully some mitigation would get us over the line. It's not like there are other issues and it would be the straw that broke the camels back so to speak. I appreciate your help, we'll explore the possibility of looking to design something and incorporate as and when the time comes for our application. Thanks for the input.
March 5Mar 5 3 hours ago, Cheesus said: There is room for a bin on the access road but we don't own the road so not sure if this is an option. 3 hours ago, Cheesus said: existing collection arrangements for the properties at nos xx and xx xxxx also exceed the recommended pull distances Maybe you could suggest to highways (and your local councillor) that this is an opportunity to solve an accessibility issue for these existing properties too? Is there's room for a convenient collection point for multiple bins ?
March 6Mar 6 Our barn conversion is 120m from the road. Bins will go road side same as our host house, bit of a trek down a slope, but hey ho. We have to have sprinklers with their own water supply. So we have normal house water on a meter and a separate bigger supply just for sprinklers. Both pipes run from the road up the slope. No way a fire engine could turn, but was approved because of existing building and conversion with sprinkers.
March 6Mar 6 What an absolute load of rubbish it’s no wonder things take so long in this country surely it’s up to the home owner to decide if he can drag a bin down the driveway. mine is 220m from house to road, it’s never come up in any questions with planning.
March 6Mar 6 6 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: it’s up to the home owner We know that people often do what suits themselves rather than society. Some might leave their bins on the roadside permanently, or on a shared drive. If the bins can't readily be wheeled up the drive then they will be left at the road. The planners have one chance to optimise the design for the good of us all.
March 6Mar 6 16 hours ago, Cheesus said: the proposal to install a fire sprinkler system in lieu of suitable access is considered acceptable. Good that you seem to have a solution for this. Thinking creatively, I wonder if anyone has gone as far as building their own fire hydrant system? Would just need a hose connector at each end and a 4" pipe in between. Fire engine plugs in one end and fire fighter plugs a hose in the other. Granted there would be some cost but probably cheaper in most instances than a sprinkler system.
March 6Mar 6 Author Thanks, I suppose we could look into this further but it seems like hassle when a sprinkler system will add a bit of piece of mind should the worst happen. The bin issue is the fly in the ointment for us unfortunately.
March 6Mar 6 4 hours ago, Cheesus said: Thanks, I suppose we could look into this further but it seems like hassle when a sprinkler system will add a bit of piece of mind should the worst happen. The bin issue is the fly in the ointment for us unfortunately. Go for a mist system. Speak to the council and they're usually amenable, and will provide a solution for the bins.
March 6Mar 6 8 hours ago, Bancroft said: Good that you seem to have a solution for this. Thinking creatively, I wonder if anyone has gone as far as building their own fire hydrant system? Would just need a hose connector at each end and a 4" pipe in between. Fire engine plugs in one end and fire fighter plugs a hose in the other. Granted there would be some cost but probably cheaper in most instances than a sprinkler system. For a current new build I'm consulting on, 200m driveway, the fire brigade said that they would simply lay down hoses to go up the drive, and reach the nearest hydrant in the lane. They are willing to provide a supporting statement, agreeing that the presence of an "Automatic Fire Suppression System" (Mist or sprinklers, mist in this case) mitigates the majority of their concerns. The client suggested a 45,000L holding pond, or even paying to extend the hydrant feed in the street onto their property (at cost) and the fire brigade remained pragmatic and agreed that simply laying out hoses would be 'the norm'; plus they'd likely dispatch a water bowser to arrive as a failsafe anyways. Start talking to these people and you may be pleasantly surprised.
March 6Mar 6 9 hours ago, saveasteading said: We know that people often do what suits themselves rather than society. Some might leave their bins on the roadside permanently, or on a shared drive. If the bins can't readily be wheeled up the drive then they will be left at the road. The planners have one chance to optimise the design for the good of us all. Sensible deviations should be allowed, per case, with the applicant paying the admin fees to review and resolve each case. Wheelie bins in a nice store at the head of the access to a property should be acceptable, vs ugly rows of bins being left permanently on display (to the detriment of the area). Homeowner can then transport refuse to the bin store at their inconvenience. On bin days you pull the bins out of the store to the kerbside. Simples. "Nick for president!!!!" I suggested a used golf buggy to my current client, with a trailer, for doing the 200m 'refuse runs'. Fleas come with the dog, with adverse sites, but the owner can decide if they are happy to accept the compromise and inconvenience (or build somewhere else!).
March 7Mar 7 Author Thanks for all the comments, I am waiting for my planning consultant to come back to me but is it generally possible to build a bin store on the small grass verge that borders the access road? Around halfway down the track there is a grit box at the side of the road, up against a wall - whilst there is no footpath as such down the unadopted road and it is a dead end I can't see us being allowed to stick our bins there however nice the store we build looks?
March 7Mar 7 12 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: For a current new build I'm consulting on, 200m driveway, the fire brigade said that they would simply lay down hoses to go up the drive, and reach the nearest hydrant in the lane. They are willing to provide a supporting statement, agreeing that the presence of an "Automatic Fire Suppression System" (Mist or sprinklers, mist in this case) mitigates the majority of their concerns. The client suggested a 45,000L holding pond, or even paying to extend the hydrant feed in the street onto their property (at cost) and the fire brigade remained pragmatic and agreed that simply laying out hoses would be 'the norm'; plus they'd likely dispatch a water bowser to arrive as a failsafe anyways. Start talking to these people and you may be pleasantly surprised. It's alright the fire brigade saying that its making sure you don't have an anal BCO who refuses to sign off. That's the nut you've got to crack. A lot of money to put on the line without that in black and white. Edited March 7Mar 7 by Oz07
March 7Mar 7 2 hours ago, Oz07 said: It's alright the fire brigade saying that its making sure you don't have an anal BCO who refuses to sign off. That's the nut you've got to crack. A lot of money to put on the line without that in black and white. It’s about supporting statements, and yes it’s the BCO who decides, but if you approach them with nothing then you’ll just get the knee-jerk FO. Phone calls and emails cost nothing, but hopefully sense will now prevail for the current client with so much positive supporting feedback, from both the council and the fire brigade. Just wondering what the odds are, of the bins catching fire on bin day lol.
March 7Mar 7 32 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: It’s about supporting statements, and yes it’s the BCO who decides, but if you approach them with nothing then you’ll just get the knee-jerk FO. Phone calls and emails cost nothing, but hopefully sense will now prevail for the current client with so much positive supporting feedback, from both the council and the fire brigade. Just wondering what the odds are, of the bins catching fire on bin day lol. Deffo doing the right thing getting the evidence. The problem is getting all this stuff before you shell out for the plot. In my case vendor wasn't willing to do the graft so I moved on. Plot still for sale
March 17Mar 17 Author Just to give those who have contributed to the thread an update - we have proposed to the council we would make good potholes in the unmaid road and provide a electric cart & charger and this was their reply: "I think that would probably be acceptable on balance. As we’ve said previously, the question is whether the refuse collection arrangements would amount to significant harm to residential amenity – if there is evidence that the issue has been considered and addressed in some manner, then a case could be made for approval despite be contrary to guidance. The provision of a pull-cart and improved surfacing would likely meet the tests for the imposition of conditions. In short, I think we would have a difficult time refusing the application on these grounds if a pull-cart and improved surfacing were proposed and conditioned."
Create an account or sign in to comment