Thoughts on proposed layout for self-build

[Ben Brewin]

Hello all,

 

We are close to embarking on an exciting project, and have an opportunity to change the plans. I would be grateful for any thoughts, observations suggestions on the proposed plans for our prospective self-build, which have been prepared by the seller of the plot. It has full planning permission.

 

The ridge height maximum is 5.9m - so I’d particularly welcome thoughts on upstairs space and headroom- I’m concerned that the sloped ceilings could become cumbersome, but I also quite like the idea cosy spaces upstairs with plenty of light through roof lights, and possibly a dormer on the master bedroom.

 

Thanks in anticipation!

 

Ben

PA-05 Proposed Elevations.pdf PA-04 Proposed Floor Plans.pdf

Edited July 22 by Ben Brewin
Typo

[ProDave]

Layout is simple, uncluttered and little wasted space.  Can we see a plot layout so see how the house sits with regards to boundaries, neighbours and which way is south etc?

 

Head room.  a 5.9M ridge is not much.  The plans are normally drawn with a dotted line depicting the extend of the flat ceiling upstairs.  Your plans seem to show quite a wide area of flat ceiling.  Surprisingly wide for the low ridge height.  Do you have any section drawings i.e a section through the middle of bedroom 1 or 2 and a section through bedroom 3.

 

Personal preference, have the hob on the island and sink on the wall units.

 

I would not go to the expense of an external fireplace.  Just a room sealed stove with twin wall flue that can either go up inside or outside.

[Kelvin]

Ours is a 1.5 storey room in roof although the ridge height is a bit higher. What we did was not put in the dwarf wall on one side so the sloped ceiling meets the outside wall. This allowed us to make roof void on the opposite side deeper and therefore the wall a bit higher. We also vaulted the ceiling on one side right to the ridge beam and made the ceiling in the other room as high as possible. This made the upstairs feel much more spacious despite the sloped (coomb) ceiling. 
 

The other thing we did in our bedroom is where the ceiling meets the wall we had it plastered in a curve (there is a name for this) rather than as a sharp edge. This also makes it feel bigger as the wall merges in with the slope of the ceiling up to where the ceiling goes flat. 
 

Agree with ProDave. It’s a really nice clean layout making use of all the space. Will be great to live in. 

Edited July 22 by Kelvin

[ProDave]

On the subject of ridge beams etc.

 

As you want to use most of the loft space for habitation, don't let your designer design a roof construction based on trusses.  Instead insist he designs a cut roof supported by ridge beams. You have enough intermediate walls to support that.  That is what we have.  It then allows complete flexibility what parts are used for habitation and what are partitioned off for storage etc.  And make it a warm roof make up so the insulation follows the roof line right down to the walls.

[Kelvin]

Something to think about is using some software that you can easily generate 3D views of the layout. I used a mixture of RoomSketcher (really easy to use but has some limitations in layout) and SketchUp. It really helped us visualising the rooms and we made a few changes as a consequence. 

[JamesP]

Quick scan at your drawings.

Not dissimilar to our build, as @ProDave make sure you have a ridge beam, try and get 1.5m before roof pitch starts.

Make sure Velux are accessible by hand or automate and consider external blinds if possible.

Make sure the other bedroom window can open, do not rely on Velux for cross ventilation.

I would rotate the kitchen island 90' anti clockwise and change hob to sink.

Consider how to address overheating and cooling issues now.

Lose the chimney / fireplace for a stove / flue. Spend on airtightness.

This bedroom photo is 6.2 metres wide with some built in draws / cupboards. 1.5m to the eaves.

 

Edited July 22 by JamesP

[Kelvin]

The plans had  the wall on left coming out 750mm either side of the rooflight as this should have been separate bedroom. We changed it to open plan upstairs multi-purpose room and opened up the ceiling to the ridge beam. It’s 3.6m wide at this point. Had we left it as per the original plan it would have been a smallish slightly cramped feeling bedroom. Done like this it feels much bigger than it is. Similarly had we built the wall at the stairs making it a bedroom it would still have felt bigger. 
 

The other picture shows the curve in the plastering. We brought this wall out to 850mm rather than 750mm which made it higher pushing the ceiling up a bit. It also gives us handy accessible roof storage that runs the full length of the room. There’s a similar space in the other room. I put all the shower plumbing in these voids which makes them really easy to access. One for the upstairs bathroom and the other serves the downstairs bathroom. 

 

 

Edited July 22 by Kelvin

[torre]

Agree the layout works well in the footprint of the build.

 

Do you have any section drawings or do you know what headroom the dotted lines denote?

 

5.9m isn't that much total, I wouldn't be surprised if those lines indicate 1.5m headroom.

 

Is there any scope to raise the ridge height? Is it planning or the vendor constraining you?

[Mike]

My main suggestion would be to change the bathroom to avoid having the bath, shower or WC against the Bedroom2 partition - or to make it a double partition - to reduce noise transmission.

 

5 hours ago, ProDave said:

Personal preference, have the hob on the island and sink on the wall units.

I'd chose to have them both against the wall, leaving the island free.

[JohnMo]

Elevation look a bit bitty.

Front elevation lots of odd size windows?

02 side elevation windows on gable end need centering around upper floor window.

04 elevation, dump chimney.

 

Utility and office take up as much space as living room, living room looks very narrow and cramped compared to other rooms.

 

WC and front door hit each other, so needs fixing

 

Assume ASHP will be installed, need to find a home for that and an easy route to cylinder.

 

Wouldn't be my choice to have just one bathroom between 3 bedrooms. Quite a bit of wasted/lost space upstairs.

 

Do you really need a chimney?

[G and J]

If it were me I'd look at the possibility of flipping the plan, so that you loose the potential " corridor" area at the end of the lounge......may of course not work with garden layout but attached a very scrappy attempt to explain what I mean

[Kelvin]

33 minutes ago, Mike said:

 

 

I'd chose to have them both against the wall, leaving the island free.

Given the island is relatively compact then I agree with this. But it depends on how the island will be used. If you entertain a lot so have folk sitting there as you prep food you likely wouldn’t want the hob or the sink on the island. If you just used it as a breakfast bar and rarely had folk sitting there then having the hob on the island might be more practical. It really comes down to how you live. We mostly use ours as a breakfast/lunch bar so works well for us having the hob and sink on the island although our island is quite big which helps. 

Edited July 22 by Kelvin

[Ben Brewin]

Hi everyone, thanks for your feedback! I’ve attached the block plan, the views are to the field to the south, which is why the lounge is positioned where it is.

We have explored raising the ridge height, the sellers architect’s initial thoughts are this is a medium to high risk in terms of obtaining updated planning. The house to the west is 1.5 storey.

I’m inclined to ask for a pre-planning meeting with the council to explore increasing the ridge height.

 

Over the weekend I picked up SketchUp and had a go at modelling Bedroom 2 to try to better understand the space and headroom, I’ve attached a couple of screenshots- with a king size basic bed model included for perspective. The dotted lines on the plans are indeed 1.5m height according to the architect.

 

It will be ASHP, UFH, MHVR. We are thinking about putting a 2 storey extension on the study, utility and Bedroom 2 under permitted development, and including an en-suite in the downstairs study/guest bedroom. We may also then think about having two bedrooms upstairs and a larger bathroom… but this is a bit of a wild card idea….

 

Thank you for all of your perspectives- chimney, hob and sink, island rotation - all very helpful considerations.

 

Welcome your thoughts on the modelled space!
 

PA-02 Block Plan RevPL3.pdf

[Kelvin]

This is the issue we had albeit our ridge height is slightly higher at 6.1m and roof pitch 45°. My concern was about being in bed and feeling the ceiling was really close to us. 
 

Here’s a drawing of what we did. 
 

[Nick Laslett]

@Ben Brewin, we had a ridge height restriction. Our architect changed the angle to 48°, and cut the top off the roof to create a tabletop style roof. It worked very well for us, the increase in the angle really helped open the rooms. 
 

From the ground you can’t tell we have a flat roof. 

 

Edited July 23 by Nick Laslett

[torre]

@Ben Brewin I think you'll need more than the 900mm starting height at the bed head - that would feel quite oppressive and the limited headroom would extend fast enough to make getting in and out tricky. Min 1200 I'd say.

 

Looks like you have a lot of tree cover between neighbours so perhaps half a meter at the ridge wouldn't cause too many issues but yeah I think taking to planners is a good idea.

[ProDave]

Our previous house had 1.5m walls at the bed head and that was okay, less than that and it would feel oppressive I think.

 

I think and extra half metre of ridge height would make a massive difference.  Speak to the planners.  You would then just bring the main outer walls above floor height as shown in @Kelvin section plan above.  Must then be built with a ridge beam to prevent outward force on those little walls at the bottom of the roof.

[Kelvin]

31 minutes ago, torre said:

@Ben Brewin I think you'll need more than the 900mm starting height at the bed head - that would feel quite oppressive and the limited headroom would extend fast enough to make getting in and out tricky. Min 1200 I'd say.

 

Looks like you have a lot of tree cover between neighbours so perhaps half a meter at the ridge wouldn't cause too many issues but yeah I think taking to planners is a good idea.

Yes, ours is 1.4m and I wouldn’t have wanted it much smaller. Due to  the pitch of the roof the ceiling gains height quickly so it means you can stand at the head of the bed quite comfortably but I am only 5’9” which helps. 
 

The wall at the bed head isn’t structural so you’ll be able to adjust that once the frame is up and decided then how far to bring it out. It’s what we did. I marked out the king size bed dimensions on the floor and then made up a headboard out of cardboard to determine where to place that wall. 

[SBMS]

23 hours ago, ProDave said:

On the subject of ridge beams etc.

 

As you want to use most of the loft space for habitation, don't let your designer design a roof construction based on trusses.  Instead insist he designs a cut roof supported by ridge beams. You have enough intermediate walls to support that.  That is what we have.  It then allows complete flexibility what parts are used for habitation and what are partitioned off for storage etc.  And make it a warm roof make up so the insulation follows the roof line right down to the walls.

Or use a posi rafter roof. Best of both worlds - manufactured off site, can be arbitrarily deep (ours are 304mm) and span from ridge to wall plate:

[ProDave]

Looking again at your plans, is there any scope for getting access to your plot from Priory Lane?  If you could then the SW bit of your garden currently where you drive to get into the plot, could be a nice bit of an evening sun trap garden.

 

Is the "existing outbuilding" in the top left by any chance a single garage?  If so it will have vehicle access rights to Priory lane. That certainly looks like a driveway entrance in front of it.

[Ben Brewin]

13 hours ago, ProDave said:

Looking again at your plans, is there any scope for getting access to your plot from Priory Lane?  If you could then the SW bit of your garden currently where you drive to get into the plot, could be a nice bit of an evening sun trap garden.

 

Is the "existing outbuilding" in the top left by any chance a single garage?  If so it will have vehicle access rights to Priory lane. That certainly looks like a driveway entrance in front of it.

@ProDave we don’t think there is access from Priory Lane. The lane is apparently maintained by the residents along the lane, with quite strong views against additional traffic (construction and enduring access). That said, the garage is currently accessed from Priory Lane, but I don’t know if that means there is automatic right to vehicle access?

[Ben Brewin]

That you all for the follow up suggestions, i think on reflection the 0.9m knee walls are just too short and 1.5m would be better. Better still would be to increase the pitch of the roof. I have shared your ideas with the seller for their architects views. I will post again with updates!

[Spinny]

The traditional way of increasing the area of higher ceiling height in rooms in the roof is the dormer window of course.

I notice how appropriately positioned velux windows can achieve a similar effect by using the window reveal to similar effect.

 

Wonder if some adjusted toilet/services layout around the entrance way might allow the front door to be moved across to better align with the double doors at the back of the house to give you that 'look right through the house' look when you come in through the front door.

 

Timber cladding looks wonderful when new, but we decided we didn't like the aged grey look so much so went with Cedral fibre cement boards instead.

 

Agree with Pro Dave about access from the other road. Also back of house currently faces east, so evening sun will be at the front of the house and the back will be shaded by the house itself at that time. Consideration might be given to rotating the house by 180 degrees and then flipping the across the midline. Size and position of existing trees also to be considered. There are tools you can use to examine the passage of the sunlight over the property. (We are east facing at the back but by having a roof light in the side extension we can catch some evening sunlight, and fortunately the garden length and angles work to give us evening sunlight).

 

 

Edited Friday at 12:28 by Spinny

[Mike]

13 hours ago, Ben Brewin said:

the garage is currently accessed from Priory Lane, but I don’t know if that means there is automatic right to vehicle access?

It almost certainly does, theoretically, if it has been used by the occupants of the house over an extended period, irrespective of what the residents / owner of the lane may say. Ideally your solicitors would have obtained an affidavit to that effect from the previous owners during the purchase process, if access isn't mentioned in the title deeds. Without that, continuity & length of access is harder to prove.

[Spinny]

Looking again I am surprised the upper floor doesn't feature at least one dormer window. There appear to be only 3 windows serving the upper floor and all of them positioned in a gable end. No velux or rooflight windows there either - just 3 windows. Given all that tiled sloping roof I'd be thinking at least 1 dormer.

 

My late parents had the upper floor in the roof and ended up installing double dormers opposite each other in both legs of the roof which made a huge difference.

 

Dormers can look old fashioned, but a decent architect would avoid that.

 

PS Open plan kitchen diner looks sizeable and perhaps likely to be used as a second seating area too - so where would the ubiquitous second tv go ? Maybe think about the kitchen/dining/seating layout in there carefully - the layout is likely to strongly influence the electrical/lighting plan for that room.

 

PPS Looks like the original architects might no longer be ?

 

Edited Saturday at 14:14 by Spinny