Size is important

[Hecateh]

I am desperate to find a space for a downstairs loo in my split level house.  I was thinking there was room under the stairs but, of course, because the house is split level the ground level is higher under the stairs - it is not a void.  Any idea what minimum size I will need?

 

 

[MikeSharp01]

Take care because building regs will kick in and the accessibility aspects will dictate the minimum size. If you look at the regs you can seen the various layouts and sizes you can get  away with. It's part M of the regs

Edited December 22, 2017 by MikeSharp01
Added part M ref

[Nickfromwales]

If you can't get a cloakroom in because of regs, run the services, cap them off, get your house signed off and put it in afterwards . 

[Ferdinand]

If you need you should be able to get some way under 1 sqm. Go looking for layouts, corner loos etc .

 

Useful discussion on this thread, and a few resources - albeit that is about tiny bathrooms. The design sites tend to cover both.

 

Do you need to do this later ... if you add it now will you need a big disabled access one due to regs?

 

In a tiny loo, it feels much larger if you have a comfortable wash basin that both hands fit into at once rather than a finger bowl.

 

It is a bit like the psychological difference a larger shower tray makes to a tight ensuite .. which need only be say 1m x 800 vs 760 x 760.

 

F

Edited December 22, 2017 by Ferdinand

[ProDave]

In Scotland you must have an accessible downstairs toilet and demonstrate you have space to install an accessible downstairs shower in the future. Oh how relaxed things are down south.

 

As noted if you can't comply with the accesability requirements, don't fit it yet, just make a cupboard that happens to have a capped off drain fitting......

[Nickfromwales]

I fitted a cloakroom suite into a bookcase on top of a landing once. 1450x600mm internal dimensions. Customer still raves about it as its opposite all the bedroom doors ( no ensuites ). It's a strictly 'pee only' loo as that was one where I had to use a Saniflow compact.

[Jeremy Harris]

The regs don't relate to the ground floor, they relate to the entrance floor, so if the ground floor is not where the front door is located then the regs in Part M don't apply.

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, Hecateh said:

I am desperate to find a space for a downstairs loo in my split level house.  I was thinking there was room under the stairs but, of course, because the house is split level the ground level is higher under the stairs - it is not a void.  Any idea what minimum size I will need?

 

 

 

Do you need one ..?? 

 

In England you need one on the floor on which the entrance is - that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the ground floor. 

 

If  you want an additional one, as long as you have one that meets Part M of the Building Regs then it can be a very small cloakroom ..!

[Hecateh]

20 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

Do you need one ..?? 

 

In England you need one on the floor on which the entrance is - that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the ground floor. 

 

If  you want an additional one, as long as you have one that meets Part M of the Building Regs then it can be a very small cloakroom ..!

I'm trying to future proof.  At the moment, it is not a problem at all - good for me to use stairs - but I'm 63 and intend being carried out in a box.  

 

We've got around 900 x 1300 - not sure that meets regs.  There will be a bathroom/ensuite on the entry level and the same but bigger on the upper level

 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Hecateh

[ragg987]

Doubt you could get a toilet and sink more compact that this. If you could fit a sliding or bi-fold door then the room could be tiny.

https://www.ukbathroomstore.co.uk/aquarius-combined-spacesaver-wc-toilet-and-basin-aqsswc

And it saves time too (at least for men) - wash your hands WHILE have a p**s.

[Ferdinand]

42 minutes ago, Hecateh said:

I'm trying to future proof.  At the moment, it is not a problem at all - good for me to use stairs - but I'm 63 and intend being carried out in a box.  

 

We've got around 900 x 1300 - not sure that meets regs.  There will be a bathroom/ensuite on the entry level and the same but bigger on the upper level

 

 

Doubtful whether it meets regs but at that size you could perhaps have a shower as well . Loadsaroom ! I think. A generous wet room might be an option.

 

Can you post dimensions plus options for the door location plus where pipes are coming from, and we can knock one up.

 

Have you not already got a bathroom on that floor?

 

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Hecateh]

2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

If you can't get a cloakroom in because of regs, run the services, cap them off, get your house signed off and put it in afterwards . 

This is what we are planning BUT not sure we need to because this isn't the entry level.  

On the entry level I was just wanting a tiny ensuite on the second bedroom (which they class as a single but it is as big as some main rooms on houses I have seen for sale.  This is the one that looks as though it may have to meet accessibility requirements - which I think it may - so long as there is only a single bed.

 

These are the final drawings.  Where I want the loo is where the doorway is next to the stairs in section EE

20 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

 

Doubtful whether it meets regs but at that size you could perhaps have a shower as well . Loadsaroom ! I think. A generous wet room might be an option.

 

Can you post dimensions plus options for the door location and we can knock one up.

 

So door width and 1300 deep - plenty of room to fit in what I want - but won't meet regs if they apply seeing as it is not entry level

High Croft Bungalow b regs-007C.pdf

[Ferdinand]

Do you have to meet stairlift regs on those stairs - looking at the plan you put on the other thread? How have you done it or is there an exception eg provision for a lift somewhere?

Edited December 22, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Hecateh]

3 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Do you have to meet stairlift regs on those stairs - looking at the plan you put on the other thread? How have you done it or is there an exception eg provision for a lift somewhere?

No-one has mentioned that since we discussed it right at the beginning, I think a stairlift could be fitted.  It would be possible to live just on the entry level, though it wouldn't be much fun.  

[ProDave]

This thread reminds me of a loo in student digs that was so small it had knee holes cut in the door.

[Ferdinand]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

This thread reminds me of a loo in student digs that was so small it had knee holes cut in the door.

 

I think there is actually plenty of space for a loo, washbasin and shower / broom cupboard. Philip Schofield too, if you like.

 

It could also be made 900 x 1700 or so by dint of a bifold door and slightly longer wall part way to the end of the stairs.

 

Speculating, now that @Hecateh is building a scale model of Hadrian's Wall inside her bungalow, I am wondering whether she will be doing anything interesting with it. That downstairs loo or kitchen would be quite cool with the stepped back brickwork exposed to carry a collection of something. Especially with the addition of a few coloured or glazed engineering bricks. Shades of rediscovered prehistoric tube stations in the North Midlands. I suspect that the retaining wall is behind insulation, however.

 

There is also probably something about cool built-in furniture in that sofa alcove, just by dint of half pushed-out bricks, hunks of wood, and a futon mattress. Could also save a little money.

 

Will have a play in Sweet Home 3D over the weekend on the loo / shower, whilst trying to avoid the stuff I should really be doing.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Hecateh]

15 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

 

I think there is actually plenty of space for a loo, washbasin and shower / broom cupboard. Philip Schofield too, if you like.

 

It could also be made 900 x 1700 or so by dint of a bifold door and slightly longer wall to the end of the stairs.

 

Speculating, now that @Hecateh is building a scale model of Hadrian's Wall inside her bungalow, I am wondering whether she will be doing anything interesting with it. That downstairs loo or kitchen would be quite cool with the stepped back brickwork exposed to carry a collection of something. Especially with the addition of a few coloured or glazed engineering bricks. Shades of rediscovered prehistoric tube stations in the North Midlands. I suspect that the retaining wall is behind insulation, however.

 

There is also probably something about cool built-in furniture in that sofa alcove, just by dint of half pushed-out bricks, hunks of wood, and a futon mattress. Could also save a little money.

 

Will have a play in Sweet Home 3D over the weekend on the loo / shower, whilst trying to avoid the stuff I should really be doing.

 

Ferdinand

 

That picture looks cool - not sure it's quite me though.  

I said about building out a bit too but builder wasn't keen - though he'll do it if it's what I want.  Don't really think it is necessary though.  So long as the door opens out or is bifold or something I think there is plenty of room.  

I was thinking of something like this for the loo - really like the idea of tanking it as a wet room though,  Even if It's just for a had held shower.  Would work if I was temporarily immobilised

 

 

or this 

 

Totally opposite but both appeal in different ways

[Ferdinand]

Hmm. Where do the other 10 spare loo rolls from that bulk pack live?

 

Will leave it alone until Sat, but one significant issue is where is your plumbing and soil pipe going to come out?

 

The easy way may be to flip your entire staircase so that this cloak is next to the kitchen or the bathroom above. I cannot see any problems with that. 

 

Otherwise it it will cross the stairs, and require very careful thought about maintenance and noises.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Jeremy Harris]

2 hours ago, Hecateh said:

 

I was thinking of something like this for the loo - really like the idea of tanking it as a wet room though,  Even if It's just for a had held shower.  Would work if I was temporarily immobilised

 

You might want to look at fitting a hand held shower to the loo.  I fitted one a while ago and it's brilliant, much, much nicer than toilet paper.  They aren't really mainstream here yet, and are mainly marketed to the Muslim population so they can properly perform Wuḍū or Ghusl before prayer, and may be referred to as a shattaf, and look like this:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MX-Thermostatic-Douche-Bidet-Kit-Chrome-Round-Shattaf-Muslim-shower/202032701766?hash=item2f0a166146:g:dtMAAOSwmZFZne~D

[MikeSharp01]

2 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

 

Will have a play in Sweet Home 3D over the weekend on the loo / shower, whilst trying to avoid the stuff I should really be doing.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

Cool interior - is it your place?

[Ferdinand]

9 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Cool interior - is it your place?

 

No. It is in one of the houses done by Peter Aldington at Turn End in about 1968, which is listed and so a basically original interior.

 

It is a piccie from a rental advert two years ago. 

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-47209429.html

 

TBH I would not yet be confident that it would rent easily around here - I think Ts are generally very conservative when house hunting unless it is a very tight market. I love the style, and talk about them too much ... I need to visit far more other ones :-).

 

I'm trying to find money and a place for a weekend hideaway, which I would have more fun with. But .. like everybody else ... plots and money though it is less tight around here than some places.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Hecateh]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

 

 

2 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

Hmm. Where do the other 10 spare loo rolls from that bulk pack live?

 

Will leave it alone until Sat, but one significant issue is where is your plumbing and soil pipe going to come out?

 

The easy way may be to flip your entire staircase so that this cloak is next to the kitchen or the bathroom above. I cannot see any problems with that. 

 

Otherwise it it will cross the stairs, and require very careful thought about maintenance and noises.

Bathroom is moving to the other side and becoming an ensuite on bed 2.  My sister comes for the weekend once or twice a year and my daughter only stays over about the same.  Sone lives half a mile away so little use really for the second bedroom so keeping that as small as possible.  With a loo downstairs and my ensuite the bathroom will barely be used either.  Will get more use out of a decent utility as I refinish furniture as a hobby/

 

29 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

You might want to look at fitting a hand held shower to the loo.  I fitted one a while ago and it's brilliant, much, much nicer than toilet paper.  They aren't really mainstream here yet, and are mainly marketed to the Muslim population so they can properly perform Wuḍū or Ghusl before prayer, and may be referred to as a shattaf, and look like this:  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MX-Thermostatic-Douche-Bidet-Kit-Chrome-Round-Shattaf-Muslim-shower/202032701766?hash=item2f0a166146:g:dtMAAOSwmZFZne~D

 

Yes - I want one of those for each loo.  I holiday in Turkey and they have the integrated ones - but just cold water which isn't so appealing over here.  Research brought up those and they went on the 'must have' list.  

Edited December 22, 2017 by Hecateh

[RichS]

5 minutes ago, Hecateh said:

 

Yes - I want one of those for each loo.  I holiday in Turkey and they have the integrated ones - but just cold water which isn't so appealing over here.  Research brought up those and they went on the 'must have' list.  

 

 

So these basically take the place of a bidet??

[Hecateh]

6 minutes ago, RichS said:

 

 

So these basically take the place of a bidet??

Yes - without needing the space or totally separate plumbing

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

4 minutes ago, RichS said:

 

 

So these basically take the place of a bidet??

 

 

Yes, but they are a LOT easier to use.  Mine has a thermostatic mixer valve that sets the temperature, so to use it you just point it down the pan, push the trigger and wait a few seconds for it to get to temperature (very quick if you run the hot tap on the basin first).  The jet of water is more powerful than a bidet and you can direct it exactly where it's needed. 

 

They really are fantastic bits of kit, and once you've got used to one you look back on the horrid practice of smearing one's backside with excrement using toilet paper with horror.  Quite why they aren't a standard toilet appliance here I don't know.  It was a Muslim friend who first showed me one, a few years ago, and I wanted to fit one to our old house, when I re-did the bathroom, but SWMBO wasn't having it.  This time I just fitted one when I built the bathroom and if she doesn't like it, then tough.............