Proper surround sound

[Beau]

Yet to sort our TV room but do many films make good use of surround sound?

 

I only ask as when we do go to the cinema (not often) there is the odd effect but most of the soundscape appears to be just regular stereo. I was just planning to stick with a good stereo hifi but wondering if we are missing out and we should plan for a full surround system.

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, Beau said:

Yet to sort our TV room but do many films make good use of surround sound?

 

I only ask as when we do go to the cinema (not often) there is the odd effect but most of the soundscape appears to be just regular stereo. I was just planning to stick with a good stereo hifi but wondering if we are missing out and we should plan for a full surround system.

I think you’re going to the wrong cinemas! 🤣

[MikeGrahamT21]

Not sure I could live without my home cinema.

 

Had one in one form or another from day I moved out of parents, started with a Samsung DVD (forget if it had blu ray) with surround sound built in, and then moved onto a Denon 5.1 AVR with Boston Acoustics Soundware XS speakers.

 

During lockdown I decided to upgrade the AVR to a Marantz NR1710 and got two in ceiling Yamaha speakers to make full use of atmos and dts:x, also changed my centre speaker from the Boston to a Tannoy which was much more capable for the centre channel.

 

Physical media will always trump streaming when it comes to sound quality, the amount of data required for really good atmos/dts:x is mind boggling, and it certainly makes a difference, that said I find the streaming services really good, especially Disney+, but even the normal DD5.1 content gets a virtualised height channel via the AVR and it’s surprisingly good, not a million miles behind the real deal.

 

So yeah it’s money well spent, and the sky is the limit with amount, but you really don’t have to spend crazy amounts to get a good system. If you can go with larger form speakers then you’ll likely get good value in terms of sound quality vs price, compared with small speakers which really do cost a lot to make them decent. I prefer mine to blend in and be compact as the living room isn’t huge, and the Boston speakers although really old now, cost me like £250 and have been a delight, of course I will look to upgrading them at some point in the future.

 

I also tried two subwoofers given my AVR had a second port, but in my case it was too much for the smaller room. Ended up with a 5.1.2 setup.

 

It’s my telly that’s the dinosaur in my setup, 17 year old Samsung 40” LCD, I’ve repaired it twice and it’s still going strong.

 

 

A comparison with a relatively cheap 4K LG LED TV, gives a pretty decent fight, and that’s 4K content but running at 1080P on mine. I had an area of broken pixels on it a while back, which it repaired all by itself, and for that it earned the right to stay!

[MikeSharp01]

1 hour ago, MikeGrahamT21 said:

I had an area of broken pixels on it a while back, which it repaired all by itself

Respect!

[Pocster]

10 hours ago, Beau said:

Yet to sort our TV room but do many films make good use of surround sound?

 

I only ask as when we do go to the cinema (not often) there is the odd effect but most of the soundscape appears to be just regular stereo. I was just planning to stick with a good stereo hifi but wondering if we are missing out and we should plan for a full surround system.

Atmos , dtx etc etc. pretty common on home movies / streaming now .

[ProDave]

11 hours ago, MikeGrahamT21 said:

I had an area of broken pixels on it a while back, which it repaired all by itself, and for that it earned the right to stay!

I am of the opposite school there.  A pixel fault is likely a screen issue and unlikely repairable so I would have used the period when the fault went away to sell that so someone else before the fault comes back and possibly gets worse.

[Kelvin]

We’re definitely all different as I wouldn’t sell a known faulty item to some unwitting buyer. TVs are hard to sell second hand anyway. I can’t even give away a couple of small that I have and charity shops don’t want electrical stuff. I also have a Panasonic plasma TV that has an excellent picture quality in the garage gathering dust. Had it over 14 years but we are a one TV household nowadays so no need for it. Can’t sell it and loathed to take it to the recycling centre. 

[ProDave]

5 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

I also have a Panasonic plasma TV that has an excellent picture quality in the garage gathering dust. Had it over 14 years

I have one of those.  It is set up as a stupidly large tv in the smallest spare bedroom.  But the real reason I keep it is as a spare.  We have 2 large tv's in the two main rooms and if one breaks, I don't want to be rushed into getting a replacement, so I like to have a spare one that can be put into use while I either fix or replace the one that has died.

 

[JohnMo]

12 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

I also have a Panasonic plasma TV that has an excellent picture quality in the garage gathering dust. Had it over 14 years

I have the same, think I bought mine in the 90s, when they first came out. Mine also in the garage. May plug in one day and use as a heater the screen got so hot.

[Pocster]

Going down a rabbit hole here . Thinking 11.1.4 but then the denon needs an extra amp for 2 of the ceiling channels !

[Kelvin]

Wire for that but don’t fit it. I have front high wide speakers and the difference with them switched in and out is noticeable in a slightly more expansive sound stage but that’s all. 
 

I assume you found these guides: 

https://www.dolby.com/about/support/guide/speaker-setup-guides/9.1.4-overhead-speaker-setup-guide

 

It was mentioned above questioning fitting 2 ceiling speakers instead of 4. I disagree with that, definitely fit 4. 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 11:42 by Kelvin

[Pocster]

20 hours ago, Thorfun said:

Yes! A dedicated Atmos setup will blow a soundbar away. But I question the need for 4 Atmos speakers. A 7.1.2 setup if your room will accommodate the extra surround speakers would suffice? I’ve previously had a 5.1.2 system and that was darn good. 
I would suggest work out where the screen and sofa would go and then see what speakers you can fit in the space around it. 
I’m very excited for you. I can’t wait until I’m able to do the cinema but it’s years away sadly. But, then again, you have already been building for about 5 more years than me. 

Missed this message somehow .

yeah I can place speakers anywhere I want and as many as I want . Remember my ‘Swindon office style ‘ ceiling 😊 . Nice and easy to add / remove / move speakers .

Leaning now more towards a 7.1.4 system . It would bug me to go 7.1.2 and “ not know “ if those 2 extra ceiling speakers make a difference ! . So much so that I’d add them anyway . I was surprised the denon h3800 has 11 channels but only amps 9 of them ( what’s the point of that ! ) - so would needs a small extra amp just for 2 extra ceiling speakers .

[MikeGrahamT21]

4 hours ago, ProDave said:

I am of the opposite school there.  A pixel fault is likely a screen issue and unlikely repairable so I would have used the period when the fault went away to sell that so someone else before the fault comes back and possibly gets worse.

It happened when I redid the living room, so about 3 years ago I think, been spot on ever since. It’s a tough old bugger 😂 

[Kelvin]

It’s relatively common for amps to process more channels than they can amplify which they do for a few reasons. It gives you some flexibility allowing you to use an existing amp you have or add one later to take advantage of the extra channels without having to replace the AV amp. If also keeps the cost down as it’s cheap enough to process all the channels but dearer to provide discrete amplification for all the channels. 

[bmj1]

• Amp: I went for a Denon amp, picked up Denon AVC-X6500H for £850 on ebay
• Speakers: I also did Monitor Audio, picked up a bunch of the Monitor Audio CP-CT380 in-ceiling speakers end of life, then mounted an SB-4 Soundbar at the front because I didn't want to compromise on the LCR channels with in-ceiling speakers
• Subwoofer: I did a SVS SB-1000 Pro Subwoofer - picked one up for £350 on ebay - ended up pairing it with the SVS Soundpath triband adapter for wireless signal as I hadn't planned properly for the subwoofer placement & wiring up front

I also made use of the Dolby guides referenced above.

 

Good luck ! And don't be afraid to buy some of the kit used if you get a decent discount

[Pocster]

11 minutes ago, bmj1 said:

• Amp: I went for a Denon amp, picked up Denon AVC-X6500H for £850 on ebay
• Speakers: I also did Monitor Audio, picked up a bunch of the Monitor Audio CP-CT380 in-ceiling speakers end of life, then mounted an SB-4 Soundbar at the front because I didn't want to compromise on the LCR channels with in-ceiling speakers
• Subwoofer: I did a SVS SB-1000 Pro Subwoofer - picked one up for £350 on ebay - ended up pairing it with the SVS Soundpath triband adapter for wireless signal as I hadn't planned properly for the subwoofer placement & wiring up front

I also made use of the Dolby guides referenced above.

 

Good luck ! And don't be afraid to buy some of the kit used if you get a decent discount

Sounds like you got some good kit there for quite a chunk less . Oh don’t worry ! When I go to richer sounds I’ll ask if he will sell me their 7.2.4 setup as it’s old stock used now ! ( for a significant discount of course ! )

The directional ceiling speakers aren’t cheap are they! I thought they’d be like 50 quid each !!

Edited Sunday at 13:09 by Pocster

[bmj1]

13 minutes ago, Pocster said:

Sounds like you got some good kit there for quite a chunk less . Oh don’t worry ! When I go to richer sounds I’ll ask if he will sell me their 7.2.4 setup as it’s old stock used now ! ( for a significant discount of course ! )

The directional ceiling speakers aren’t cheap are they! I thought they’d be like 50 quid each !!

No they aren't, and they add up !

 

ebay is really your friend, if you aren't in a rush, set up some searches and let it come to you

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, Pocster said:

Missed this message somehow .

yeah I can place speakers anywhere I want and as many as I want . Remember my ‘Swindon office style ‘ ceiling 😊 . Nice and easy to add / remove / move speakers .

Leaning now more towards a 7.1.4 system . It would bug me to go 7.1.2 and “ not know “ if those 2 extra ceiling speakers make a difference ! . So much so that I’d add them anyway . I was surprised the denon h3800 has 11 channels but only amps 9 of them ( what’s the point of that ! ) - so would needs a small extra amp just for 2 extra ceiling speakers .

I was thinking more of the surround speaker placements rather than Atmos as unless you've side walls you'll need to suspend them from the ceiling as those aren't supposed to be at ceiling height.

 

e.g. 

[Pocster]

EBay denon 3600h 20 mins from me £550 ….

[Pocster]

33 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

I was thinking more of the surround speaker placements rather than Atmos as unless you've side walls you'll need to suspend them from the ceiling as those aren't supposed to be at ceiling height.

 

e.g. 

surround one’s floor standing I assumed … ?

[Thorfun]

1 minute ago, Pocster said:

surround one’s floor standing I assumed … ?

Sure. Hadn’t considered that option! 🤦‍♂️

[Kelvin]

I used Monitor Audio Soundframe speakers for the front high, surround, and rear surround. A combination of the SF1,2 and 3. They do both wall mount and in wall mount. I got a proper bargain though as I got all six for 50% off as they were shop returns. It looked like they’d been specced for a dear house build in Yorkshire as the architects drawings were in one of the boxes. One of the speaker drive units was damaged so I called Monitor Audio and they sent me a replacement FoC. Quite nice looking things that disappear a bit as far as speakers can. 
 

The 4 ceiling speakers are Bowers & Wilkins CCM382. One pair was an open box and the other new so a reasonable discount on that too. 

[Pocster]

Guess I should buy all the items new .

Open them

Return them 

buy again at a discount 😊

[Pocster]

Currently looking at this for 3.5k before I haggle . Cant see any worthy costs savings on this Klipsch brand 

 

Klipsch R-600F (pair)

Klipsch R-40M (4 speakers)

Klipsch R-101SW subwoofer

Klipsch R-30C centre speaker

Polk Audio RC80i (4 ceiling speakers)

Denon AVC-X3800H AVR

[Kelvin]

Are the speakers a package deal or can you split them? If so consider this sub instead 

 

https://www.homecinemachoice.com/content/svs-sb-1000-pro-subwoofer-review-page-2

 

It’s dearer of course but I think SVS do the best subs pound for pound on the market. I have the SB-3000 and it’s phenomenal. Certainly go listen to them.