Induction hobs with integrated ventilation - no reviews available on new models

[ryder72]

@lizzie I also assume you bought a number of venting hobs and tried them all before deciding Bora was best?

 

Remember I have never said Bora is a bad product. Its just not as good as a lot of alternatives. There are hoods that are quieter or more effective at extraction than Bora for similar price. There are hoods that are as good as Bora for a lower price.

 

In my book any products that fall into either of the above categories are atleast equally good if not better value for money.

 

I am pleased for you if you are happy with your Bora. But it would be regressive if you let your subjective opinion of a certain make and model be pushed out as the objective truth on the product category.

 

To give you an example - I used to promote Gutmann (and still sell them under the right circumstances). Their build quality is unmatched. But Novy now offer a product that performs comparably and is much quieter for a lower price point. Under the circumstances, it would be disingenuous for me to still promote Gutmann and hence I choose not to.

 

I have some empathy for your view on kitchen studios promoting specific products  where they have a vested interest and I think that is totally wrong. We take a totally different approach and lead with a best in class approach even though I know this is commercially not the best strategy for my business. 

 

[lizzie]

@ryder72 Of course I didnt buy them all but I did try quite a few before making my decision. 

 

I think my opinion on the product is as valid as yours we start from a different place, you from reports and stats and me from testing and use and we each have formed our own opinion. 

 

But every time Bora is mentioned on here you do it down.  You are always saying there is better for the money  etc.  Its a marketing hype etc You always plug the ones you like which is understandable. Given everyone knows you have a kitchen business and you sell some high end hobs I wanted to give a more balanced view on the Bora from personal use. I am not criticising the brands you promote just giving a view of what I think of Bora in use and how I found it compared to others I tested.

 

Ref your favoured brands personally I did not like the Gutmann in use one iota. I have not seen the Novy you refer too as probably not out when I was looking but I specifically did not want something that comes up whether it be out of hob itself or out of worktop so would not have considered it.  I wanted sleek minimal and good to look at with quiet operation and a decent level of extraction and a good controllable flexible cooking area.  I found all that in the Bora product...style as much as substance informed my choice.....and I stress my choice, I don't expect my choice to be everyone's choice.

 

Best in class buying from test results and salesman opinions has more than once ended me up with something I hated in use.  I now prefer to make my decision from testing a product not what a comparison report says.

 

I am sure you do offer your customers a good service, that comes across.

 

I think we need to leave i there now.

[ryder72]

Yes lets leave here. It was your that asked the question 'I dont know why, @ryder72 has never been keen on Bora'. Not me that asked why is '@lizzie so keen on Bora'. I always came at it from a 'if she is happy with her choice thats cool.'

[wozza]

On ‎27‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 12:22, ryder72 said:

@lizzieand your point is?

 

I have seen independent study results that show other makes outperforming Bora. That doesnt meant bora is rubbish. There are better products out there which I choose to supply, support and have in my own kitchen.

 

Ryder, can you show me the data or provide a link so I can look?

 

I have always been one for researching before buying and my choice to buy a Bora hob in the near future is based on my experience, I have had a demo on a Neff extraction hob and the Bora hobs.  I am in no doubt that the Extraction on the Bora out performed the Neff hence my decision to buy one.

 

Information and reviews on extraction hobs does not appear to be that readily available - especially like for like comparisons

 

If there is information or independent study results available that shows that the Novy hob extracts better, is quieter etc than a Bora I would actively seek out to have a demo on one and would most likely purchase a Novy instead.

 

Looking at the Energy labels - the Bora is quieter, but uses 2 KWh a year more (not sure what the water droplet icon is but the Bora is a B and the Novy is a C so I presuming that the Bora is better in that category)

 

 

 

Thanks Wozza.

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by wozza

[ryder72]

@ wozza - fair point. I have asked for a  copy of the results and permission to share them.

[wozza]

8 minutes ago, ryder72 said:

@ wozza - fair point. I have asked for a  copy of the results and permission to share them.

 

Great thanks

[Luke Salter]

Thanks for the support Lizzie. 

 

Ryder may I ask which kitchen company you own? & also i am keen to see the test results.  

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, Luke Salter said:

 

Ryder may I ask which kitchen company you own? & also i am keen to see the test results.  

@ryder72 is free to respond to that via pm. 

This will not become a pissing contest on open form on buildhub ok, so please wind things in chaps. 

Mods. 

[ryder72]

of course @Nickfromwales. @Luke Salter I have met Andy and he has been to see me. You have PM.

[Nickfromwales]

Thank you. 

[SimonM]

On 27/07/2019 at 14:44, lizzie said:

@ryder72 Of course I didnt buy them all but I did try quite a few before making my decision. 

 

I think my opinion on the product is as valid as yours we start from a different place, you from reports and stats and me from testing and use and we each have formed our own opinion. 

 

But every time Bora is mentioned on here you do it down.  You are always saying there is better for the money  etc.  Its a marketing hype etc You always plug the ones you like which is understandable. Given everyone knows you have a kitchen business and you sell some high end hobs I wanted to give a more balanced view on the Bora from personal use. I am not criticising the brands you promote just giving a view of what I think of Bora in use and how I found it compared to others I tested.

 

Ref your favoured brands personally I did not like the Gutmann in use one iota. I have not seen the Novy you refer too as probably not out when I was looking but I specifically did not want something that comes up whether it be out of hob itself or out of worktop so would not have considered it.  I wanted sleek minimal and good to look at with quiet operation and a decent level of extraction and a good controllable flexible cooking area.  I found all that in the Bora product...style as much as substance informed my choice.....and I stress my choice, I don't expect my choice to be everyone's choice.

 

Best in class buying from test results and salesman opinions has more than once ended me up with something I hated in use.  I now prefer to make my decision from testing a product not what a comparison report says.

 

I am sure you do offer your customers a good service, that comes across.

 

I think we need to leave i there now.

We had the Novy One in our last house. Fantastic piece of kit. Our friends in Belguim have one and I was taken a back by the extraction power. Very cool motorised centre but a bit of a a pain to clean thoroughly. Gutmann is on our short list for the new build. I have seen the Bora in operation and I can attest that the extraction was not as good as our Novy.

[puntloos]

A few thoughts:
- For me the user interface is crucial. The best by far was an industrial 1-burner induction hob I had (because my rental's main hob was standard electric horribleness). The crucial part about this hob was that it was rated at 3300W and the power level was controlled by a phyisical dial that would go from 100 to 0 in less than a second. I've played a bit with some bora and novy's and while they are OK the sheer precision lacked. I think bora has such dials on one of their models.

 

- Extraction, I'm sure one is somewhat better than the other noise vs suction but I don't think you'll go wrong with most modern brands.

 

- Induction quirks One thing that I think is not fixable but happy to be enlightened is that all induction hobs I've had so far don't do 'low power' well, they just start clicking on and off which is annoying, esp with pasta you see it boil.. nothing.. boil.. nothing.. ergh. Is there any hob that can be precise at simmer levels?

 

- Extractor Design Aesthetics, here the Novy wins hands down because it's situated behind the burners, and it actually blocks the view while cooking. This is an aesthetics point - hiding the 'messy cooking' while you entertain guests

 

- Extractor cleaning - somehow the bora's location in the center feels like it'll have to eat a ton of food spills which doesn't sound good to me. Novy feels better but @SimonM says a pain to clean.. can you elaborate? I imagine you have to clean it fewer times than the bora though, so is the total amount of time you spend cleaning perhaps the same?

 

- Power - I used to think I'd want all my burners to be able to run at 3000W (or above) at the same time, but I've come to realise that I certainly want one burner to be able to do 3000, while I can still use the others at a reasonable tilt (in particular while making soup, if you dump cold-ish ingredients in with already boiling ingredients you lose your boil, and of course you want to get back to boiling asap)

 

What's special about Gutmann?

[SimonM]

On 16/01/2022 at 01:44, puntloos said:

A few thoughts:
- For me the user interface is crucial. The best by far was an industrial 1-burner induction hob I had (because my rental's main hob was standard electric horribleness). The crucial part about this hob was that it was rated at 3300W and the power level was controlled by a phyisical dial that would go from 100 to 0 in less than a second. I've played a bit with some bora and novy's and while they are OK the sheer precision lacked. I think bora has such dials on one of their models.

 

- Extraction, I'm sure one is somewhat better than the other noise vs suction but I don't think you'll go wrong with most modern brands.

 

- Induction quirks One thing that I think is not fixable but happy to be enlightened is that all induction hobs I've had so far don't do 'low power' well, they just start clicking on and off which is annoying, esp with pasta you see it boil.. nothing.. boil.. nothing.. ergh. Is there any hob that can be precise at simmer levels?

 

- Extractor Design Aesthetics, here the Novy wins hands down because it's situated behind the burners, and it actually blocks the view while cooking. This is an aesthetics point - hiding the 'messy cooking' while you entertain guests

 

- Extractor cleaning - somehow the bora's location in the center feels like it'll have to eat a ton of food spills which doesn't sound good to me. Novy feels better but @SimonM says a pain to clean.. can you elaborate? I imagine you have to clean it fewer times than the bora though, so is the total amount of time you spend cleaning perhaps the same?

 

- Power - I used to think I'd want all my burners to be able to run at 3000W (or above) at the same time, but I've come to realise that I certainly want one burner to be able to do 3000, while I can still use the others at a reasonable tilt (in particular while making soup, if you dump cold-ish ingredients in with already boiling ingredients you lose your boil, and of course you want to get back to boiling asap)

 

What's special about Gutmann?

It's reasonably easy to disassemble but it has a trough that collects fat residuals and if you allow boil over, it collects in one of two traps.  The one underneath the hob slides out and we noticed that there was sometimes residual fat on top of the base.  Don't get me wrong, it does tell you when to clean it and you have to rest its "brain" and all the parts are dishwasher safe.  We did have a small plastic clip break off which controls the extractor to extract, left, right or centre of the hob.  It perished after only 6 months of use but Novy were very helpful sending us the complete housing by special delivery from Belgium within a few days.  Their 5 year warranty was very comprehensive too however, they have upgraded the One and I do like the Up version especially as you can configure it yourself. The Easy version is cool too.....https://www.novy.com/en-gb/service/information/catalogue/

 

Gutmann's, build quality is amazing and the combined extraction beneath has I believe, 4 processes of extraction, see below, easy to keep clean.  The only major consideration is you may need 3 phase or, our electrical provider, Western Power will install a second cable when you are ready to dispose of your builders supply and re-connect the new build. You may think this is a little over the top for a hob but your spark needs to calculate power requirements if you are installing ASHP and car charging, a single phase may not be enough anyway. 

 

As a former chef, in my opinion, Gutmann are as close to a professional set-up in a domestic home as you can get and you will appreciate, lots of cooking in our house!

 

 

 

[Mike]

4 hours ago, SimonM said:

As a former chef, in my opinion, Gutmann are as close to a professional set-up in a domestic home as you can get

It would appear, however, that they are no longer in business: https://app.insolvenz-portal.de/Insolvenzverfahren/exklusiv_hauben-gutmann-gmbh/2950265

[puntloos]

4 hours ago, Mike said:

It would appear, however, that they are no longer in business: https://app.insolvenz-portal.de/Insolvenzverfahren/exklusiv_hauben-gutmann-gmbh/2950265

Yeah, Gutmann doesn't seem so good, man. 

 

OK I'll see myself out.