Vertical Timber Clad Roof

[Visti]

We're looking for alternatives to Zinc as it is affordable following some pointers on here, but we're not sure we're prepared to rearrange all our windows to suit the roofing! Tail wagging the dog and all that.

 

 

Hence we're researching timber for both the 1st floor for cladding as well as the roofing for both gables as seen in grey above. Prices for red cedar appear reasonable on iWood, yet there appears to be nothing online on how to apply it vertically nor on how to use it for roofing.

 

We know it's viable following Dutch and Scandinavian designs (below) but there seems to be little technical info on how to make it work as a genuine roofing material!

 

We're not opposed to WPC either, but again we hit the same problem; it's all designed to be decking and cladding only, and horizontal at that.

 

Anyone with experience in using vertical timber as a roofing material?

 

 

 

[Ian]

Traditionally you would be looking at cedar shingles if you wanted a timber roof.

 

If instead of shingles you want to use cedar planks as a roof finish the timber will end up just being for 'decorative' purposes because you like the look of it. There will need to be a metal roof skin or plastic single ply membrane roof below with standing seams to which you fix timber battens to which in turn you fix your timber planks.

 

Ive used this kind of roof build-up on several commercial builds but never with timber planking as the final finish.

 

eg this roof system can easily be overlaid using timber planking:

https://www.kingspan.com/gb/en-gb/products/insulated-panel-systems/roof-panel-systems/slate-tile-support-roof-panels-ks1000-ts

Edited November 26, 2017 by Ian

[Russell griffiths]

@Ian beat me to it I think your timber will be only for show, so you will have to pay for another method of waterproofing before you clad so in effect the timber is just an added cost because you don't like the look of your roof. 

Why not stick with the metal roof and change the walls to timber. 

[Stones]

I've seen this done locally.  They used profile metal sheets to provide the actual roof covering to keep water out, cross battened (which also secured the profile sheets and finished with timber to match the wall cladding - thin strips of timber with gap in between.

[MikeSharp01]

If you are thinking of going for the underskin / rainscreen approach loads of other options become available in addition to timber. For instance take a look at things like Equitone panels.

[Ferdinand]

@Visti

 

I don't see how say a waterproof membrane under the wood would be that expensive.

 

I am not sure what effect you want but there are plenty of options for a "vertical bar" or "continuous" effect over the roof.

 

eg and you will need to find out how it was done,

1 - The Grand Designs High Wycombe Core-Ten house had continuous Core-Ten over the pitched roof. There is no reason why similar could not be done with anodised aluminium or sheet metal.

 

2 - If you want a vertical texture you could use tiles or slates to give a pattern / texture. eg Small black pantiles or Romans, or mixed coloured slates / tiles arranged in bands. 

 

3 - You could do in coloured box-profile or similar metal roof.

 

4 - There are a whole series of pitched roof houses with similar roofs on the Dungeness peninsula, including one covered in black rubber, one done in vertical black wood etc. Piccies below for 5 of these. These are all publicity-seeking-architect designed (identified at the links), so you should be able to get some technical details off the net.

 

Spend a weekend down there, and have a wander knocking on some doors with a folder of your plans in hand. Some will be delighted to talk. While you are at it visit the wonderfully idiosyncratic collecton of village churches on Romney Marsh ... a great experience, and the WW1 "Sound Mirror" 'radars'.

 

EDPM sheet. Presumably airtight

https://www.dezeen.com/2013/08/25/black-rubber-beach-house-by-simon-conder-associates/

 

Stained wood

https://www.dezeen.com/2016/01/06/north-vat-house-rodic-davidson-architects-dungeness-beach-kent-england/

Think this was on George Clark's Small Spaces.

 

Wood and Fibreboard - Pobble House.

https://www.dezeen.com/2014/07/28/pobble-house-dungeness-guy-hollaway/

 

Nearly flat wooden roof

https://www.dezeen.com/2013/08/25/el-ray-at-dungeness-beach-by-simon-conder-associates/

 

Shingle House. Roof clad in tarred shingles.

https://www.dezeen.com/2010/12/06/shingle-house-by-nord-architecture/

 

5 - Take a look at the wooden Nave Roofs and Tower Roofs of Stave Churches or wooden windmills (eg Chinner near you). That is not vertical but is certainly vernacular.

 

Ferdinand

(Picture links removed, as Dezeen seem not to like it)

 

(*)

 

Edited November 26, 2017 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

Add.

 

I think the longest ever Grand Designs self-build project (10+ years?) used huge planks of wood as giant overlapping shingles. But he had his own forest, so you may need to schmooze someone with lots of wood.

 

PS Be interested in the detail for the bottom of those posts. Usually they would be on mini-pillars or hunks of stone.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Ferdinand

[MikeSharp01]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

I don't see how say a waterproof membrane under the wood would be that expensive.

Actually that is correct - Tyvek do a facade membrane that does the job @ about £4 m²!

[Russell griffiths]

59 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Actually that is correct - Tyvek do a facade membrane that does the job @ about £4 m²!

Is this not designed for open joint rainscreen, not a roof, the term water resistant does not mean to me that it's waterproof, l can't see how this can be used on a roof. 

I personally feel any type of timber cladding would require a waterproof layer underneath it, be it tin sheets or a rubber type membrane. 

 

[MikeSharp01]

Just now, Russell griffiths said:

Is this not designed for open joint rainscreen, not a roof, the term water resistant does not mean to me that it's waterproof, l can't see how this can be used on a roof. 

I personally feel any type of timber cladding would require a waterproof layer underneath it, be it tin sheets or a rubber type membrane. 

You may be right but we initially had Equitone as the cladding and the scheme was specified with UV facade underneath it. The build up came from a design of a house in Guildford although we also look at an EPDM undersheet. So anybody thinking of using it should check.

 

[Visti]

That's confirmed my suspicions regarding the roof needing an additional layer to the timber. Good news is our original design already caters to corrugated steel/alu so we can simply timber over the top of that to get the desired effect any time after the build is complete (we're unfortunately not fans of the look, otherwise this would have been easy!)

 

Equitone panels are really neat (literally) and could certainly fit the bill too. Anything grey to black that keeps a slick profile is what we're keen on. I'll enquire with them for some samples and costings. I'm guessing maintenance is minimal with those too.

 

The full EDPM sheet looks really intriguing in that design you posted @Ferdinand... And it's almost like you read our minds regarding the rest! A trip to Dungeness sounds in order in the near future.

 

We're huge fans of Core-Ten but unfortunately we're limited to no more than 30% coverage for certain materials at graven hill, that being one of them. Hence we're looking at alu beams in place of wood too.

 

I'll ask about the posts tomorrow as they're new as of Friday.

 

 

 

[Ferdinand]

9 hours ago, Visti said:

That's confirmed my suspicions regarding the roof needing an additional layer to the timber. Good news is our original design already caters to corrugated steel/alu so we can simply timber over the top of that to get the desired effect any time after the build is complete (we're unfortunately not fans of the look, otherwise this would have been easy!)

 

Equitone panels are really neat (literally) and could certainly fit the bill too. Anything grey to black that keeps a slick profile is what we're keen on. I'll enquire with them for some samples and costings. I'm guessing maintenance is minimal with those too.

 

The full EDPM sheet looks really intriguing in that design you posted @Ferdinand... And it's almost like you read our minds regarding the rest! A trip to Dungeness sounds in order in the near future.

 

We're huge fans of Core-Ten but unfortunately we're limited to no more than 30% coverage for certain materials at graven hill, that being one of them. Hence we're looking at alu beams in place of wood too.

 

I'll ask about the posts tomorrow as they're new as of Friday.

 

 

 

 

I am depressed that the Pobble House is named after the Kentish for Pebble rather than "the Pobble who has no toes" by Edward Lear. Have these people no standards? 

 

http://www.nonsenselit.org/Lear/ll/pobble.html

 

[Visti]

Found a decent technical drawing (in Dutch!) of the solution and how to hide the guttering.

 

 

Looks viable and got as far as a rough cost estimate to realise that it's probably beyond our available finances... Pitty! Hopefully the diagram will be useful to someone else.

 

Instead we've gone for a black corrugated roof with vertical timber cladding, similar to the ones below. We figure if 5-10 years after the build we still fancy it, we can always lay the timber on top of the corrugated steel/alu!

 

 

 

 

On 27/11/2017 at 07:57, Ferdinand said:

I am depressed that the Pobble House is named after the Kentish for Pebble rather than "the Pobble who has no toes" by Edward Lear. Have these people no standards? 

 

I'm sure a few posters of the poem around the area will quickly change that... 

[Ferdinand]

Since you said you were going to Dungeness, we expect a photo...

[bissoejosh]

On 11/29/2017 at 17:14, Visti said:

Instead we've gone for a black corrugated roof with vertical timber cladding, similar to the ones below. We figure if 5-10 years after the build we still fancy it, we can always lay the timber on top of the corrugated steel/alu!

 

I'm considering corrugated (depending on swmbo) for our roof as an alternative to Tata standing seam. Have you found a supplier for residential use who provide a working detail?

Edited December 5, 2017 by bissoejosh

[Crofter]

@Visti Those houses look awfully familiar... are they Dualchas/R.House designs by any chance?

 

I've gone with corrugated steel and am very happy with it. Cost about £1200 for the whole roof inc flashings, ridge, fixings- bear in mind my house only has about 70m2 of roof. This was for the thicker 0.7mm steel and the Plastisol coating which has a 20yr guarantee. Installation was straightforward, I did it singlehanded without scaffolding although tbh most people thought I was being a bit crazy

[Ferdinand]

1 hour ago, Crofter said:

@Visti Those houses look awfully familiar... are they Dualchas/R.House designs by any chance?

 

I've gone with corrugated steel and am very happy with it. Cost about £1200 for the whole roof inc flashings, ridge, fixings- bear in mind my house only has about 70m2 of roof. This was for the thicker 0.7mm steel and the Plastisol coating which has a 20yr guarantee. Installation was straightforward, I did it singlehanded without scaffolding although tbh most people thought I was being a bit crazy

 

I notice that you do not contradict the last statement.... 

[Visti]

9 hours ago, bissoejosh said:

I'm considering corrugated (depending on swmbo) for our roof as an alternative to Tata standing seam. Have you found a supplier for residential use who provide a working detail?

 

We're awaiting a quote from Cladco at the moment; they haven't provided a working detail yet, however they have some decent instructions that details the DIY steps involved. I am certain there are other cheaper manufacturers out there but I've had limited time to do much more than just a quick good search. Do let me know if you find alternatives!

 

6 hours ago, Crofter said:

@Visti Those houses look awfully familiar... are they Dualchas/R.House designs by any chance?

 

Spot on the money @Crofter, those two are from Dualchas Architects. I had not however heard of R.House before though, that has gotten me excited to see variations on the same theme. Gives me a lot more confidence that this will work too (and that it doesn't have to be monochromatic!)

 

6 hours ago, Crofter said:

I've gone with corrugated steel and am very happy with it. Cost about £1200 for the whole roof inc flashings, ridge, fixings- bear in mind my house only has about 70m2 of roof. This was for the thicker 0.7mm steel and the Plastisol coating which has a 20yr guarantee. Installation was straightforward, I did it singlehanded without scaffolding although tbh most people thought I was being a bit crazy

 

Aye, we're going for it due to a combination of cost and DIY ease (relatively). What supplier did you go with in the end?

[Crofter]

@visti In the end I went with my local Jewsons. I got a really good quote from Excel roofing but the savings would have been wiped out by the haulage, due to the distance from me, and I didn't want the risk of having the sheets going through mulriple carriers, in case I had to claim for damage.

[bissoejosh]

10 hours ago, Visti said:

We're awaiting a quote from Cladco at the moment; they haven't provided a working detail yet, however they have some decent instructions that details the DIY steps involved. I am certain there are other cheaper manufacturers out there but I've had limited time to do much more than just a quick good search. Do let me know if you find alternatives!

 

Thanks, out of interest are you going for a concealed gutter look like the pics above?

[Cpd]

My local Builders merchants get there sheeting from cladco and they were able to do it for cheeper than i could going direct to cladco......  

[Visti]

48 minutes ago, bissoejosh said:

Thanks, out of interest are you going for a concealed gutter look like the pics above?

 

We are. It's going to cost us more due to the aluminium box section gutters we're aiming for, but it'll be minimised we hope via price hunting and DIY. Happy to share working section when we've got it!

[Russell griffiths]

We are thinking of hidden gutters, but will do it in fibre glass as it’s cheaper than getting anything folded up and it’s easy to lay it in to a preformed ply box with the falls built in. 

I have just put a fibreglass roof on our kitchen and was very impressed with the finish and tough feel to it.