House is on a slant

[RenovateHouse]

Bought my first house a week ago and we noticed about two days in that the whole house is on a slant. Once we pulled back the carpet and underlay we could then feel the incline when walking from the back of the house to the front. How I missed this I have no idea, how the surveyor didn't seem to notice is even worse. Luckily, it does not appear to be new (at least 20 years old) as things like doors, mouldings/kickboards around the old fitted kitchen/wardrobes, etc have all been cut to the angle of the house's slope. Over a 1m level the drop is approximately 20-25mm. I haven't found any cracks in the brickwork except for a few in the side extension in the blockwork.

I have no idea if this has been caused by the extensions done in the 80's, drainage issues or something else. I am good at DIY, but experience with structural issues is new.

I am assuming my only option to investigate this is to pay for a structural engineer's report? Any idea what a reasonable cost for this would be? Prices I have seen online seem to vary between 300 and 5000!

[FuerteStu]

Go around the outside and look for cracks or replaced mortar. Check the corners of window frames inside and out. Feel for drafts around door and window frames. 

 

If there are no signs of issues, then it just just be the house was built by someone drunk. 

 

Drink, and you'll forget about the wonky house. 

[Gus Potter]

1 hour ago, FuerteStu said:

Drink, and you'll forget about the wonky house.

Yes do that first and then just monitor the house to see house is still moving about between the winter and summer.. expect this in an old house.

 

Attached is an old document I refer to that gives guidance on subsidance / settlement. Read this and hopefully it will allow you to relax! Start with pages 5 and 7!

 

 

BRE Digest 251 Assessment of damage in low-rise buildings.pdf

[saveasteading]

Is it just the floor that isn't level? What about wall verticality? If they are vertical then subsidence is unlikely.   

 

There are some very bad builders out there, especially on developments. I'm including site management here.

So it is probably  a floor poured without care.

 

I once was called out to advise why a house ( 1m of brick walls at that stage) was out of kilter ( something is wrong!). I found that the brick coursing was a spiral. At least they had someone with a level check it, unlike your slab.

[ProDave]

Is this a solid or suspended floor that slopes?

 

Do both floors up and down both slope the same way the same amount?

 

How old is the house?  e.g. if it was my BIL's 300 year old Welsh farm house, I would be impressed if they were that level (the upstairs ones certainly are not)

[saveasteading]

11 hours ago, RenovateHouse said:

(at least 20 years old

 

11 hours ago, RenovateHouse said:

extensions done in the 80's,

 

 

[RenovateHouse]

Thanks all for your replies. The house is built around late 70's with the extensions done in the early 80's. The slope is on both floors and the bottom floor is concrete. The walls are not level in the axis of the slope, but are level perpendicular to the slope. It is like somebody picked the house up, rotated it a couple of degrees and then placed it back down again!

 

There are cracks around some of the windows and a couple of the doors. Albeit the PVC ones only, the woodens ones seem to have no cracks. I can't see any cracks elsewhere bar the cracks through the blockwork in the attached garage but no cracks on the external bricks.

 

I have attached a rough layout of the land, I suspect the cause of the slope is the garden being 2foot lower and the extension at the back.

 

It would be nice if the slope could be corrected but I guess there is no reasonable solution to this and I just have to accept it?

 

[saveasteading]

31 minutes ago, RenovateHouse said:

nice if the slope could be corrected

For the concrete floor you can latex screed it  to level.

I once used the same on a dmall area of boarding, and was surprised to find it stayed put. It was a very flexible finished product, almost like a foam shoe sole.

 

But it does sound a little concerning. 

An inspection and  verbal overview from an SE would be my recommendation.

OR contact your house insurer.

[ProDave]

39 minutes ago, RenovateHouse said:

The walls are not level in the axis of the slope, but are level perpendicular to the slope. It is like somebody picked the house up, rotated it a couple of degrees and then placed it back down again!

Or, the house has been built on a raft foundation and the whole raft has sunk at one end.

 

What is retaining the 2ft drop to the garden?

 

Does the extension also slope the same amount?

 

I would be asking the surveyor why he did not notice this?

[ProDave]

5 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

OR contact your house insurer.

I would not do that yet.  Pre existing condition that should have been noticed in the survey, might refuse the claim.

 

For now I would monitor it.  Get a long spirit level, cut a block of wood to go under one end that makes the bubble level, then keep that block, and keep checking to see if the slope gets worse.  If it does, then consider the insurance.

[torre]

Try to feel reassured that this doesn't appear recent if doors etc are cut to the slope and may well not be getting worse.

 

What sort of survey did you have? 25mm over 1m sounds like something anything more detailed than a valuation survey should have highlighted especially with visible signs like doors and mouldings cut to slope.

 

Did the extension have building regs sign off?

[saveasteading]

On 07/11/2024 at 23:18, RenovateHouse said:

Over a 1m level the drop is approximately 20-25mm. 

@torrehas reminded us of the degree of slope. It is extreme.

Can we just confirm that this is not a local blip but continues over the width?

so if the house is say, 8m wide the slope is 150mm ish.

And is it the original house and the extension?  In which case movement has occurred post extension.

 

On 07/11/2024 at 23:18, RenovateHouse said:

pay for a structural engineer's report? 

 

You have just bought this based on a surveyor's report.

Presumably a properly qualified specialist.

 Now you must write to the surveyor , probably through your lawyer,  to confirm that you have found this issue. It has to be on the record ASAP.

 

I have never known a surveyor put a spirit level on the floor, but that is their decision.

 

This is important so that 1. Your house doesn't fall apart, now or in the distant future 2. Remedies are carried out. 3. The house is saleable in future.

 

Your lawyer will advise further, and all costs will go against the surveyor who will be insured for this.

 

If I was near you then I'd give an off the record opinion. But I'm presumably not. So you need expert inspection and advice. Again ask the lawyer what to do next. And do it on Monday.

[Temp]

Ask the surveyor to comment. How can he not notice 25mm over 1m.

[scottishjohn]

are you really sure on your measurements 

if it was 10mm in600mm length it would be a 1 degree slope ,but you are saying maybe nearly twice that 

 

thiis is from the  simple inflfight  avaition navigation correction    rule--   1in60rule 

 1mile of track after 60miles =1degree off track 

borrow a laser level and check on outside of house to measure exact drop from one side to other

 or  buy a cheap water level kit and check it 

about £10  for one 

make sure you get all air bubbles out of piping before use 

 it was good enough for the egytpians to lay foundations for the pyramids 

 

 i used one to level my wall heads when rebuiling them for the fixing of wall head plates 

 

and when the builders arrived to put the roof trusses on they checked with laser and it was spot on to 1mm over 25m length and 8m width of building 

 

Edited Saturday at 22:21 by scottishjohn

[RenovateHouse]

On 09/11/2024 at 11:13, ProDave said:

Or, the house has been built on a raft foundation and the whole raft has sunk at one end.

 

What is retaining the 2ft drop to the garden?

 

Does the extension also slope the same amount?

 

I would be asking the surveyor why he did not notice this?

 

Thanks all for your replies, I can't get multiquoting to work but will try to answer everyone.

 

I believe that the brick wall and the 3 foot wide patio retains the drops to the garden. I lifted up some of the patio slabs and there is just mud underneith, I would need to dig down to see if there is anything more substantial.

 

I have bought a better spirit level (length 1.8m) and lifted up all the carpets downstairs to retake mutliple measurements per room and averaged. In a straight line from the front door the layout is Porch->hallway -> dining room -> extension

 

Measurements are 22mm -> 29mm -> 41mm -> 23mm (wall only). Unfortunately there is no point measuring floors in either extension as both concrete slabs have dropped.

 

Upstairs is pretty much the same as downstairs. The upper hallway which spans from the front of the house to the back except the extension has a drop of 39mm over the spirit level.

 

I do not have much confidence in the wall measurments due to so many low/high spots, but I measured around 24-29mm over the spirit level.

 

I am going to speak to a local SE tomorrow and ask my surveyor why this was missed. The survey was a level 2 RICS survey.

 

Like Torre, I do not believe this has happened recently, but the slant makes things difficult. The fitted wardobres etc look terrible because they have had to correct for the slope, kitchen, showers, doorframes, etc look very wonky against the ceiling/cornices, we need to level our desks, stop our chairs from rolling when sat in, all doors swing open/close and so on. I have always taken a level house for granted, but not anymore 😆

 

 

[saveasteading]

Well done. That is good information and confirms the seriousness.

How much less would you have paid if you knew the issue?

Will someone else take the risk? 

 

The surveyor may be professional or look for a getout. Beware of pallyness and any attempt at  agreement or 'looking into it".

 

[scottishjohn]

14 hours ago, RenovateHouse said:

Measurements are 22mm -> 29mm -> 41mm -> 23mm (wall only).

so are you saying that to get total drop from one side of house to other you add all those dinensions together?

which would be 115mm drop ?

have you measured the other way as well?

 

[SteamyTea]

@RenovateHouse

May be worth getting a cheap Lidl laser level, then you can play in the dark and see how far out things are.