Wall tiles out of level / not flat surface

[MortarThePoint]

Has our first room tiled and noticed that some tiles out sticking out or sunken slightly. Below is one of the worst examples where it fits a 2mm packer.any fit a 1mm packer though. The tiles themselves seem to be very flat, so are laid unlevel. The tiles are 300mm x 100mm.

 

What's an acceptable tolerance here? Am I fussy or is this not good enough?

Edited November 6 by MortarThePoint

[MortarThePoint]

@Nickfromwales and @nod you know what quality to expect. Do I need to have a word with the tiler or am expecting too much?

 

To be clear, the issue was spotted by eye in a number of places before trying a short straight edge on it.

[nod]

If the edges match the tiler will probably blame the walls 

You can always find Something with tiles 

Some tilers are using leveling systems on wall tiles Which can give a nice edge but cause hollows I’m not keen on levelers on walls 

[MortarThePoint]

Just now, nod said:

If the edges match the tiler will probably blame the walls 

You can always find Something with tiles 

Some tilers are using leveling systems on wall tiles Which can give a nice edge but cause hollows I’m not keen on levelers on walls 

 

The edges don't align and the walls were very flat (rendered).

 

I don't like the levelling system so much, but this feels too far from tolerance as I can pick it up with an inexperienced eye.

[nod]

1 minute ago, MortarThePoint said:

 

The edges don't align and the walls were very flat (rendered).

 

I don't like the levelling system so much, but this feels too far from tolerance as I can pick it up with an inexperienced eye.

Hard to tell from the picture 

Point it out and ask him to take the bad ones out 

[MortarThePoint]

Just now, nod said:

Hard to tell from the picture 

Point it out and ask him to take the bad ones out 

 

How big a deal is that. Will he get the hump or is it standard work?

[Russell griffiths]

Take a better picture to show us. 

[MortarThePoint]

12 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Take a better picture to show us. 

 

It's hard to get in a photo. Tiles are 300*100. In the second photo below (with short straight edge) the right tile is reflecting the straight edge and the fact the reflection doesn't touch the actual straight edge makes it more obvious.

 

 

[Nick Laslett]

I feel your pain. In our utility room we went from flat power floated concrete floor, to uneven slate tile floor. The kitchen fitters had to scribe the front of the wooden cabinets to make them level. 
 

Even getting the trades to do what you want is an uphill task. 

[scottishjohn]

been here on my present house when i made an ensuite from an built  inwardrobe and some of the  bedroom 

 

I made the foolish assumption that the wall, as it was plasterboard would be flat in both directions 

 my solution  was to use lots of tile adhesive as a basecoat to get it right   once i had removed the tiling to start again

 the lesson is assume sod all and check before hand with a long straight edge 

 and repair anything first before starting 

 and is why a professional  will always want to use self levelling  before starting to lay a tiled or LVT floor  as the planks are very thin 

 

this was 20years ago  and I made same mistake when useing 600mm floor tiles in living room 6mx5m

 bigger the tiles the less tolerance you have to get edges correct

again in a rush to get on and we were living in house as well 

 it started off fine but as i got across the floor it got worse and the thought of wasting half the tiles and time repairing it after removing tiles --I just carried on and got more bags of adhesive

 I ended up using twice the adhesive as it should have done it get it right 

the house was not new and the  chipboard flooring and joists were not level and had bowed between the joists  and probably not helped by me sinking UFH pipes into the flooring and sheeting with 6mm ply over top to put strength back in floor   and this had been running UFH with carpet over it for a couple of years  -- I checked it when I did the ufh ,but did not check again before tiling 

 we all live and learn  

 

 

 

 

Edited November 7 by scottishjohn

[MortarThePoint]

14 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

been here on my present house when i made an ensuite from an built  inwardrobe and some of the  bedroom 

 

I made the foolish assumption that the wall, as it was plasterboard would be flat in both directions 

 my solution  was to use lots of tile adhesive as a basecoat to get it right   once i had removed the tiling to start again

 the lesson is assume sod all and check before hand with a long straight edge 

 and repair anything first before starting 

 and is why a professional  will always want to use self levelling  before starting to lay a tiled or LVT floor  as the planks are very thin 

 

this was 20years ago  and I made same mistake when useing 600mm floor tiles in living room 

again in a rush to get onand we were living in house as well 

 I ended up using twice the adhesive as it should have done it get it right 

the house was not new and the  chipboard flooring and joists were not level and had bowed between the joists  and probably not helped by me sinking UFH pipes into the flooring and sheeting with 6mm ply over top to put strength back in floor   and this had been running UFH with carpet over it for a couple of years  -- I checked it when I did the ufh ,but did not check again before tiling 

 

The substrate was bang on flat. Blockwork was good, but then the plasterer rendered. The plasterer fixed beads at top and bottom of the wall with adhesive making sure straight with a straight edge. Then when he rendered, he ruled/'screeded' the wall between the two beads. The worst section of wall is half height tiled. If I put a 2m straight edge on the skim coat above, it's bang on and that would be worse than the underlying render as the skim wasn't ruled/'screeded' between beads like the base render was.

[MortarThePoint]

Well that conversation could have gone better. I said he didn't need to replace them to which he said he wouldn't be happy knowing they are there, but he'll finish up where he has already started and step out on the rest of the job. A shame as I think he's a good tiler and normally seems like a nice bloke too.

 

No raised voices on either side and I approached it as being a tad apologetic to raise the issue. 

 

I've a big area (72m2) of hard to lay tiles that I need to have confidence in and if I can't talk quality with the tiler it's an issue.

[Nickfromwales]

5 hours ago, MortarThePoint said:

Well that conversation could have gone better. I said he didn't need to replace them to which he said he wouldn't be happy knowing they are there, but he'll finish up where he has already started and step out on the rest of the job. A shame as I think he's a good tiler and normally seems like a nice bloke too.

 

No raised voices on either side and I approached it as being a tad apologetic to raise the issue. 

 

I've a big area (72m2) of hard to lay tiles that I need to have confidence in and if I can't talk quality with the tiler it's an issue.

Yup. Nice isn’t good enough, needs to have quality or what’s the point.

Make sure you have spares of the batch of tiles above, then ask your new tiler to cherry pick the few bad ones and re-set new tiles in to reduce the issue. 
Does just seem a bit of complacency had set in from the pics, as just the odd one vs a whole shite lay….. shame as you say but needs doing properly, simples. 

[Pocster]

Must admit on 1 particular wall I noticed this . I would tile a section a day . 2nd day ( did as you did - put a straight length against tile faces ) I could see wall was bent .

Wasn’t going to rip all those expensive tiles off the wall . So I ‘gently’ went with the bend .

Can you see it ? . Nope . The ‘bend’ is over a longer run so easier to hide .

Then once shower cubicle , toilet etc etc all wall mounted it is imperceptible ( unless you (expletive deleted)ing look for it ) .

Lesson learnt by me . Professional tiler should have learnt that lesson some time ago !

[MortarThePoint]

I didn't watch over him today and he was laying walls in 600x300 porcelain tiles (3.27kg each so 18.2kg/m2) and it looks like he has used a dot and dab method. See pictures below. I noticed this because I stepped into the room after he left and the whole room is making a bubbling/fizzing sound. The photo of a tile back is one that was lent against the wall. The other photos are taken looking at the edge of the tiled area. The tiles are 9mm thick. Half the room is plasterboard, the other half is rendered blockwork.

 

@Nickfromwales @nod urgent advice please 😱

 

 

 

Edited November 7 by MortarThePoint

[MortarThePoint]

From the BAL website:

"BS 5385-1: 2018 advises: “Tiles with a surface area of less than 0.1 m², but which weigh more per square metre than 70% of the background’s capacity to carry the weight, should be solidly bedded e.g. the maximum weight of tile that can be supported by Gypsum plaster = 20 kg; whereas 9 mm thick porcelain tiles, which weigh approximately 18 kg/m², weigh more than 70% of 20 kg (14 kg) therefore, they should be solidly bedded regardless of their size”"

Edited November 7 by MortarThePoint

[MortarThePoint]

As it's all still wet should I pull the tiles off and if so how best to clean to save some and the walls?

Edited November 7 by MortarThePoint

[Onoff]

Wish I'd used a levelling system...

Edited November 7 by Onoff

[MortarThePoint]

I phoned the tiler (he is a dedicated tiler and not cheap either) and he says that he has dot and dabbed them and that's the only way to get them flat. He's "been tiling for 40 years and never had tiles fall off. They will never fall off"

[Chanmenie]

I could not live with them that far off flat it would do my head in.

 

l’ve just tiled my upstairs bathroom and used a levelling system. It was so easy to use and the end result looks great.

I would never lay tiles now without using a levelling system. 

[MortarThePoint]

2 minutes ago, Chanmenie said:

I could not live with them that far off flat it would do my head in.

 

live just tiled my upstairs bathroom and used a levelling system. It was so easy to use and the end result looks great.

I would never lay tiles now without using a levelling system. 

 

Sorry, I have now steered the thread to a new issue which is some dot and dab tiling

Edited November 7 by MortarThePoint

[Chanmenie]

1 minute ago, MortarThePoint said:

 

Sorry, I have now steered the thread to a new issue which is some dot and dab tiling

Yeah I saw that, that looks crap as well.

if the wall is a bit off flat just use a bigger notched trowel. That will give a much better contact area. 
Dot and dab is just lazy IMHO, I’ve watched lots of tiling videos and no professionals use dots and dabs, they all use notched trowels 

[Pocster]

Back butter tiles . Adhesive on wall and notch . Don’t want any hollows especially if anything is mounted to the tiles . Though back buttering not strictly necessary for wall tiles …

Edited November 7 by Pocster

[Chanmenie]

5 minutes ago, Pocster said:

Back butter tiles . Adhesive on wall and notch . Don’t want any hollows especially if anything is mounted to the tiles . Though back buttering not strictly necessary for wall tiles …

Yeah I back buttered it’s quite easy with a little practice and gives confidence 

[nod]

NO

I would lay flags like that 

Whilst voids behind wall tiles to really matter He’s making work for himself 

A nice even 10 mil notch on the wall and a 5 mill lick on the back of the tile