Career change

[Chefjoiner]

I made a decision to have a career change around 4 years ago from chefing. Did a an apprenticeship in carpentry and Joinery. My word the building trade industry is full of di##head$!

Does anyone else have any thoughts or comments or struggle with this. It's a brutal industry but I do actually like it. You get spoken too like absolute crap and it's not great for one's mental health. Thoughts please...?

[ProDave]

6 minutes ago, Chefjoiner said:

You get spoken too like absolute crap and it's not great for one's mental health. Thoughts please...?

I thought you had just described how a KP gets treated?

 

I have only once had a "set to" with someone on a building site generally I found it okay, but I am an electrician not a joiner, but know lots of joiners and most are good.  Who is treating you like that?  People further up in the company that employs you or other trades that you just bump into?

[Kelvin]

I witnessed it first hand with the flat roofing company and the way the lead guy spoke to their apprentice. Not just banter but outright bullying about his workmanship to how he looked. There was an issue with how my flat roof was installed and he blamed the apprentice. I pointed out he was the lead guy so the accountability stopped with him. Fell on deaf ears. Everyone else was broadly ok in terms of how they spoke to each other. It’s mostly local trades though so all know each other therefore it doesn’t pay to be a dickhead. 

[Chefjoiner]

No, I've never treated KP's like that. I would always treat people with respect and be firm but fair as a chef. I get spoken to like complete and utter sh*!   By most people on site including being laughed at by the site manager . People higher up in the company don't really communicate with me. I've never had a review or even a chat with my employer and how my training has is or has gone in over 2 years. Just get left to it and not shown anything. Think I need to change employers..

Edited August 24 by Chefjoiner

[Kelvin]

Definitely change employers. 

[Dave Jones]

the building is definitely a snowflake free zone.

 

Are yyou doing site/subby work or smaller projects ?

[Chefjoiner]

I work for a smallish building company! Around 50 staff we do renovations, barn conversions etc. We get involved with everything from insulating lofts and plasterboarding which is crap. Just want to concentrate on the Joinery aspects. 

[saveasteading]

I can't recall encountering that, in 50 years and countless exposure to site  workers.

Even on sites run by nasty main contractors. They bullied corporately and at management level.....and mostly disappeared.

It would be a very bad indicator for quality expectation.

 

@Chefjoiner i think move.

[joe90]

Go self employed, no boss, get a reputation for good work and you will never be short of work. If your interpersonal skills are good with customers you are on a winner. HINT, make your quotes comprehensive, no room for ambiguity with a Caveat that if unforeseen problems are found you will discuss how to proceed with the customer. 

[Redbeard]

+1 to @joe90. It worked for me. You have to be OK with the admin, but it can be kept v simple. I only ever used spreadsheets, not 'accounts packages'. Only difference to @joe90's sugg'n is that my prices were always stated to be estimates, not quotes. Not that the customer necessarily sees the difference, but if unforeseen complication leads to a higher end-price you can point back to 'estimate'. In reality, reasonably often my final bill was less than the estimate.

[ProDave]

1 minute ago, Redbeard said:

Only difference to @joe90's sugg'n is that my prices were always stated to be estimates, not quotes. Not that the customer necessarily sees the difference, but if unforeseen complication leads to a higher end-price you can point back to 'estimate'. In reality, reasonably often my final bill was less than the estimate.

Exactly the same for me.  Yet often this forum advises against employing someone on an hourly rate and suggests a fixed price, often stating someone on an hourly rate will deliberately work slowly to make the job cost more.  You won't get a good reputation and recommendations doing that.  And if you have to quote fixed price, you have to allow for all the things that might make the job take longer and cost for that, making the job in most cases more expensive.

 

I never ever had a complaint when the final bill was lower than the estimate.

[Temp]

1 hour ago, Chefjoiner said:

I work for a smallish building company! Around 50 staff we do renovations, barn conversions etc. We get involved with everything from insulating lofts and plasterboarding which is crap. Just want to concentrate on the Joinery aspects. 

 

Unfortunately a lot of industries need people that are flexible due to the nature of the projects they do. I was in the electronics industry but only speant about 10% of my time doing electronics design. Had to do everything from designing labels to writing manuals and production related documents. The most valuable team members were the ones that would/could turn their hand to anything, especially if/when there had to be redundancies. 

 

Being good at everything might help if you fancy becoming a site manager or even setting up your own building Co.

 

[G and J]

In my experience self employment suits some but not all, and there’s a good few different aspects to that, including: vulnerability to income anxiety; need for social interaction; aptitude for organisation and admin; level of personal confidence.

 

I personally don’t believe everyone is suited to it, but I do believe that if one is suited, it's easy to underestimate how hard others might find it.

[ToughButterCup]

2 hours ago, Chefjoiner said:

... Think I need to change employers..

 

Here's a suggested strategy 

 

Bite back. Hard. Calmly.

Why? Silence may result.

 

Fail silently.

Why? Passive aggression jangles the recipient. It will make them fail you... And that's not so bad is it...

 

Plan your exit.

Why? Calamitous change makes people suspicious 

 

Network 

Why? You won't be the only one who suffers the same fate. 

 

Read the book

Stop Pissing Me Off - get it on Amazon.Lots of help there.

 

Leave with good grace and simple politeness. 

Why? Because one day you'll meet those barstewards again. It's a very small world. 

 

 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

I still see work place bullying, thankfully not in our kitchen now.

Gordon Ramsey has a lot to answer for and he should be cancelled, totally.

 

I walked out of my last place because of the piss poor management from the new owner, not the first time I have done that.

 

As for coping strategies, I have no idea.  Was easy when I was lecturing, I pointed out two things.

Every 15 minutes someone in the world gets their head kicked in by a Dr Martin boot.  Then showed them my 'roll tops'.

The other was more effective, pointed out that I marked most of their work.

[nod]

I’ve been on sites for the last so years 

The guys on sites are absolutely fine But as with other industries HSE is killing the job I been asked Told Only to send clean shaven trades to site On a site we’ve just started 

[saveasteading]

25 minutes ago, nod said:

as with other industries HSE is killing the job

Not so. Some big contractors have their very particular, sometimes counter-productive, views on what is safe.....but that is not HSE imposed: they are pragmatic and sensible.

 

27 minutes ago, nod said:

Only to send clean shaven trades to site

NOT HSE I'm sure. 

 

For clarity HSE is the Health and Safety Executive: the people who have to turn up to see a body splatted on the ground and try to prevent such things.

[joe90]

28 minutes ago, nod said:

I been asked Told Only to send clean shaven trades to site On a site we’ve just started 

WHAT! I have had a Beard for 40 odd years and now they are even more common place, they simply can’t do that surely 🤷‍♂️

[SteamyTea]

36 minutes ago, nod said:

send clean shaven trades to site

I am all for that, especially the  females.

[nod]

19 minutes ago, joe90 said:

WHAT! I have had a Beard for 40 odd years and now they are even more common place, they simply can’t do that surely 🤷‍♂️

Respirators apparently don’t work unless clean shaven

I wouldn’t mind the battery operated helmets I’ve purchased have a picture of a guy with a beard on the front

Rules are Rules 

There talking about hi viz trousers for everyone next 

[SteamyTea]

The Health and Safety at Work Act (1974) is 50 years and 24 days old today.

It has saved tens of thousands of serious injuries and countless lives.

[nod]

2 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

The Health and Safety at Work Act (1974) is 50 years and 24 days old today.

It has saved tens of thousands of serious injuries and countless lives.

It has 

But it’s gone to far now 

Long trousers in 30 degree heat is ridiculous Daily safety inspections of 300 mil hop ups It’s a whole new industry 

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, nod said:

Long trousers in 30 degree heat is ridiculous

Is that really the case, or a Daily Mail story?

2 minutes googling, it is a Daily Mail type story.

 

https://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/faq-ppe.htm

[saveasteading]

5 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

it is a Daily Mail type story.

Quote from HSE

 

If the site has a policy on clothing that does not allow shorts then you are expected to follow this rule. 

Clothing needs to protect against hazards on site.

During cold weather it is important to keep warm, especially when, for example, working at height where the cold can distract and lead to loss of concentration. 

 

As I suspected it is not HSE but a site rule.

Logically then, the site manager makes you wear longs for arc welding and in January. 

But could allow, but not insist on, shorts indoors in July.

 

Seems sensible enough. I certainly wouldn't wear shorts clambering about in a shutter full of reinforcement.

Safety boots can be hot too. Sandals or crocs?

[nod]

4 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Is that really the case, or a Daily Mail story?

2 minutes googling, it is a Daily Mail type story.

 

https://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/faq-ppe.htm

No

Quite a few WD for one 

4 hours ago, saveasteading said:

Quote from HSE

 

If the site has a policy on clothing that does not allow shorts then you are expected to follow this rule. 

Clothing needs to protect against hazards on site.

During cold weather it is important to keep warm, especially when, for example, working at height where the cold can distract and lead to loss of concentration. 

 

As I suspected it is not HSE but a site rule.

Logically then, the site manager makes you wear longs for arc welding and in January. 

But could allow, but not insist on, shorts indoors in July.

 

Seems sensible enough. I certainly wouldn't wear shorts clambering about in a shutter full of reinforcement.

Safety boots can be hot too. Sandals or crocs?

yep

companies own HSE rules Help guard against acid spills and sunburn for renderers Then I get phone calls asking why’s there no one onsite on boiling hot days 

27 managers in the office on one housing site  that we are doing 

The job has lost 2 million so far site manager and under site manager have been promoted 

There running newbuild sites like dangerous inner city jobs where the rates are three times higher 

move to go round doing safety checks of all scaffolding and hop ups benches Daily Then ticket them all 

This is what pushes costs up