Are brick slips dearer? Let's see!

[John Keith]

Here's an exercise for anyone considering using brick slips for external cladding. These prices are excluding vat, for 160m².

Price for brick slips, rapid set adhesive, spacers and gun-applied coloured mortar.
Total materials is £8600.

Anyone fancy giving me a comparison price for 65mm face bricks with mortar and ties to attach to a substrate ( timber frame, etc.)

Then, if anyone fancies giving a ballpark figure for brickwork including labour, that would also be useful.

[Mr Punter]

The bricks alone could come to more than that.

[Canski]

160m2 x  60 = approx 9600 bricks mine were £800/1000 so £7680 for bricks. I allow £6 per m2 for mortar and ties so £ 960 then there’s the labour…On one offs I charge just short of £1 per brick plus extras for lintels so £9600 total is £18240. That leaves you around £10 k to stick them and point them. Hope this helps.

[Bonner]

Plus the cost of the wall to stick them on?

[John Keith]

11 hours ago, Bonner said:

Plus the cost of the wall to stick them on?

Well, the wall is Nudura ICF and the slips from Brick-slips.co.uk can be applied straight onto the eps. The exterior wall is still the exterior wall. Blocks, clips, screws plus the concrete to fill the 120mm cavity of XR35 blocks (which have 102mm of insulation on each side) including the cost of the pump truck, for the 3-bedroom bungalow comes to £20,000 so with the ICF plus slips, plus plasterboard on the inside (again screwed directly to the integral nylon battens of the Nudura) brings it to less than £30,000. I should add, that price includes one block in the footing 457mm high, filled with C35 waterproof concrete to create a dpc. Yes I'm doing the Nudura myself (I'm trained) so that's why I used materials only numbers. Thanks.

[TommoUK]

maybe check you enough foundation for a facing brick otherwise you're probably looking at slips.  slips require a support tray/system fixed back to the core of the icf so don't need extra width in the foundation

[FM2015]

8 hours ago, John Keith said:

plus the concrete to fill the 120mm cavity of XR35 blocks

102 or 152 surely?

 

It would be useful to give more build details to make the 20k/30k relevant to other users.

 

Have you built this?

 

One thing that I find nuts, no matter what the build system is, is that you can spend 30% on a veneer.  Everyone seems to chase the structure down to lowest sum only to "splash the cash" on finishes.

 

Previously had a client argue about £1000 (about 2%) before spending 67k(!!) on a rotating bath tub.

[John Keith]

6 inches 150mm yes, not 120mm. 

 

More details? What would you like?

 

 

 

Highbridge-Pre-Planning-2022-kisatb.pdf

Edited August 14 by John Keith
More info

[John Keith]

[Dave Jones]

why do the people that design these always make the ceiling soo low, tucking the windows tight to soffits meaning hard to insulate.

 

I do like the ICF concept but at double/treble the cost of a normal build for 10% at most better performance the numbers just dont stack up.

 

 

[jack]

3 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

I do like the ICF concept but at double/treble the cost of a normal build for 10% at most better performance the numbers just dont stack up.

 

I don't know about the cost comparison, but for me the main advantage would be the ability to truly self-build in a reasonably quick manner, without needing joinery or block-laying skills. The costs might be more comparable for someone in that situation given they'd be unable to easily self-build with the other methods.

[FM2015]

8 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

I do like the ICF concept but at double/treble the cost of a normal build for 10% at most better performance the numbers just dont stack up.

These numbers don't stack up!  Single digit percentage premium on price for a far superior, longer lasting product.

 

As per my earlier comment, if a house has 3, professionally fitted bathrooms and a professionally fitted kitchen to a medium spec, the client will spend more on these than the shell.  All four will probably be changed within 15 years.  You need a shell that will last that long.

 

You can build a shell for less, agreed, and ICF doesn't suit everyone, but saying it is at least double the cost for negligible performance gain is poppycock.

[maxe307]

There are 2 types of brick slips available one is purpose made slips and the other is cut down from a full brick. I purchased some purpose made brick slips for my kitchen 5 years ago and paid £0.18 per slip, I got them from a company in Germany. If you have brick slips cut down from normal bricks you are looking at a more expensive process. 

[Dave Jones]

15 hours ago, FM2015 said:

These numbers don't stack up!  Single digit percentage premium on price for a far superior, longer lasting product.

 

As per my earlier comment, if a house has 3, professionally fitted bathrooms and a professionally fitted kitchen to a medium spec, the client will spend more on these than the shell.  All four will probably be changed within 15 years.  You need a shell that will last that long.

 

You can build a shell for less, agreed, and ICF doesn't suit everyone, but saying it is at least double the cost for negligible performance gain is poppycock.

 

m2 price please of FINISHED shell, including outer skin.

[JohnMo]

52 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

m2 price please of FINISHED shell, including outer skin.

My Durisol ICF finished walls ready for stone slips came in around £12k fully DIY (built in 2020 during COVID). Inside parge coated ready for battens, external ready for battens for wood facing and other walls ready for stone slips. 70m perimeter, wall heights from 2.5m to over 3.6m. No outer skin required, everything direct to ICF. U value 0.14 out the box.

 

Costs breakdown is here

https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/topic/19042-takes-less-time-but-is-more-expensive/

 

Edited August 16 by JohnMo

[BotusBuild]

On 14/08/2024 at 08:40, John Keith said:

the slips from Brick-slips.co.uk can be applied straight onto the eps

Are you certain about this? Everything I have read (I'm also doing Nudura but with stone slips) is that you need to have a scratch coat render applied first

[Russell griffiths]

1 hour ago, BotusBuild said:

Are you certain about this? Everything I have read (I'm also doing Nudura but with stone slips) is that you need to have a scratch coat render applied first

I’ve also applied a waterproof render behind my stone slips, external stone adhesive then sticks to this. 

[FM2015]

As with all things, warranty, regulation and manufacture all provide guidelines/stipulations and then there is the hierarchy to consider.  Regulation and warranty both trump the manufacturer.

 

@Dave Jones finished shell meterage prices are a bit of a misnomer.  Generally speaking, to get to exactly the same state, the cost will not be dissimilar.  I could provide a rate for a complicated ICF build in Enfield and someone could have a price for a simple stick build in Preston.  Even the same building would have different costs in those areas.

[Dave Jones]

22 hours ago, FM2015 said:

As with all things, warranty, regulation and manufacture all provide guidelines/stipulations and then there is the hierarchy to consider.  Regulation and warranty both trump the manufacturer.

 

@Dave Jones finished shell meterage prices are a bit of a misnomer.  Generally speaking, to get to exactly the same state, the cost will not be dissimilar.  I could provide a rate for a complicated ICF build in Enfield and someone could have a price for a simple stick build in Preston.  Even the same building would have different costs in those areas.

 

m2 isnt hard. steel, ICF kit, conc then the finishing = m2.

 

at least double the cost of a normal build if not treble.

[FM2015]

1 hour ago, Dave Jones said:

 

m2 isnt hard. steel, ICF kit, conc then the finishing = m2.

 

at least double the cost of a normal build if not treble.

What finish?  What steel spec?  How many corners?  How many levels?  What performance level?  Access?  Where is it? Define normal build?  Stick or masonry?  

 

I have never hidden that I work in the industry and know full well that I could give you a meterage rate for a notional ICF build which would bare no relevance to the real world.  

 

Locally, in the last 6 months, we have had clients quoted £2.30/4" block labour only and £3.  That in itself is higher labour rates than ICF.  Add materials, insulation, cavity details, dpc, windows etc.

 

The only true comparison is a rate inclusive of labour.

 

I tell you what, you price up the OP's build in an alternative and I'll get it done in ICF and we'll see.  Proper BoQ style, cards on the table.  I'll plant a tree for every 10% price difference in your favour.  Although I know that I can't plant half a tree.

[John Keith]

On 16/08/2024 at 11:19, BotusBuild said:

Are you certain about this? Everything I have read (I'm also doing Nudura but with stone slips) is that you need to have a scratch coat render applied first

 

[John Keith]

Total cost of Nudura blocks is £14,900

C35 concrete is £675

C25 concrete is £2800

Plus pump truck £850

Call it £20,000. Add £9000 for the brick slips as described so that it allows for damage / waste. Then plasterboard the inside walls £700. That's finished wall construction inside and out which includes 102mm eps insulation inside and out with a u value of .016, no vapour barrier needed and it's £30,000.

[John Keith]

On 16/08/2024 at 08:35, Dave Jones said:

 

m2 price please of FINISHED shell, including outer skin.

Priced as a new reply

[John Keith]

£187.50 m²

[John Keith]

31 minutes ago, John Keith said:

£187.50 m²

I haven't included the cost of 10 or 12mm rebar that is used as lintels but since it means no Catnic lintels, dpc or cavity trays, I'm pretty sure it's cheaper too

 

35 minutes ago, John Keith said:

Priced as a new reply