AnonymousBosch

Oh the irony: the annoying irony

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That's a 2-gang, 2-way switch. See the diagonal dividing line in the black moulding. 

 

Each switch has Common, L1 & L2. You would normally expect the red, blue and yellow on one side of the diagonal.

 

Looks like it's just been used as two 1-way switches unless I'm mistaken.

 

Looks like live comes in on the red and jumps to the other common. The switched lives then go out to two separate lights on the blue and yellow. Belt and braces is to slip little sleeves over the blue and yellow as they are live conductors. The blue and yellow are known as "strappers".

 

Am I right in my thinking it does two lights?

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Here's one I tidied earlier (old colours):

 

PC230011.thumb.jpg.f6aa5cdfbc96058d5c2cb6d5e6b090b7.jpg

 

See the red sleeving added to the strappers:

 

PC230020.thumb.jpg.182ea82a2d78dc47ce308505e8360755.jpg

 

 

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This for reference / might interest you. Especially the intermediate switching. This is from college bumpf. See how here on the 2-way they have grey as common. The OSG now shows common as black and then grey & brown strappers. Doesn't really matter a carrot as long as they're the same both ends i.e L1 to L1, L2 to L2, Com to Com. For the intermediate now you could use a Wago etc.

 

p1.thumb.jpg.ac41ba7f41a79d0470c5875370e4d283.jpg

p4.thumb.jpg.33b18a9ecc2b03bc853a6073286908fb.jpg

p5.thumb.jpg.05abc0154efef2f5eeb1699365fde0af.jpg

p6.thumb.jpg.e089d90a0715a8ddfc6ca8bc21961ba3.jpg

p4.pdf

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3 hours ago, Onoff said:

[...]

Looks like it's just been used as two 1-way switches unless I'm mistaken.

[..]

Am I right in my thinking it does two lights?

 

Bob-on John.

 

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

This for reference / might interest you. Especially the intermediate switching. [...]

See how here on the 2-way they have grey as common.

 

The OSG now shows common as black and then grey & brown strappers. Doesn't really matter a carrot as long as they're the same both ends i.e L1 to L1, L2 to L2, Com to Com. For the intermediate now you could use a Wago etc.

[...]

p4.pdf

 

Yes, it does interest me. Today is the first time I have ever taken a switch out and poked around in it's gubbins. Bit frightening, but how hard can it be?  (to cite @Construction Channel) This whole wiring lark reminds me of delving into someone else's JavaScript and CSS mess.

 

It seems to be analogous to mixing coding conventions (in sparky lingo: brown and red meaning the same thing), and then having to delve into the mind behind a lazy bit of coding (wiring) which works -probably by accident rather than design .

 

OSG? Operational safety Group?

Strapper?  It's a bit of wire?

Wago?  A connector?

Intermediate? The wire that crosses across the back of my switch (in this case the red one)?

 

I could really get in to this. I enjoyed it.

 

 

 

 

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OSG - On Site Guide, basically a cut down and easy to use version of the regs, put into a more practical form for use on site.  BS7671 is big and far from being user-friendly, whereas the OSG is very user-friendly.

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BTW Ian, there is always a hazard zone in the vertical and horizontal lines from any pattress.  Like the others have said, a current detector is an excellent precaution, but drilling a hole in the wall directly above light switch is about as safe as sticking a screwdriver into an electrical socket?

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2 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

Strapper?  It's a bit of wire?

Wago?  A connector?

Intermediate? The wire that crosses across the back of my switch (in this case the red one)?

 

Strapper : the pair of cables that go between 2-way or intermediate light switches. 

Wago : Yup.

Intermediate : Refers to switch type and the discipline of adding additional switches to one or more lights, eg a long hall / stairs / landing. Two way switching eg two switches that bring the same light on or off can only consist of 2 x 2-way switches. To add a third eg hall / S / L then you need to interrupt the strappers with the third intermediate switch. As it intersects 2 pairs of cables you need 4 connections, and you can add as many intermediate switches as you like. See the pics that @Onoff listed and you'll see the intermediate setup. 

55 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said:

no bang no smoke no sparks. Dunno what all the fuss is about 

Wait until your brand new nippers go through a shower cable that your apprentice tells you the breaker for has just been switched off. When he's switched off the cooker instead. Thatll shiver your timbers matey :S 

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2 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Strapper : the pair of cables that go between 2-way or intermediate light switches. 

 

 

Or an informal term for a "top" that wields the strap to the "bottom".............

 

(I'd best get my hat and coat..........)

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55 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

(I'd best get my hat and coat..........)

Would that be a top hat - which would wonderfully accommdate the hair potentially, pardon the pun, standing on end.

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The OSG as said above an A5 handy guide to the regs:

 

20180211_175033.thumb.jpg.da465eff552dc8c1184833b13582d77e.jpg

 

Strappers - The wires connecting L1s to L1s & L2s to L2s but not the common.

 

Intermediate - Great on a mid landing. You can basically have as many intermediates as you want and switch on/off from any of them. Old offices, (before "open plan") with long corridors would have them outside each office. Someone working late would leave their office and turn on the corridor lights. Then walk past lots of similar switches outside other offices and turn the lights off at the last switch. Security guard doing his rounds comes in the other end of the dark corridor and switches everything on. Useful say to have a switch on entering the lounge and then one either side of French doors.

 

WAGOs - Magical connector blocks that are for all intents and porpoises maintenance free...no screws to come loose! So you can board over them etc with abandon pretty much. I favour the lever type. Check them out on YouTube when you get 5. In this context could be used to replace the "Lego brick / chocolate block" in the intermediate.

 

http://global.wago.com/en/products/product-catalog/terminal-blocks-connectors/overview/index.jsp

 

Are those diagrams I posted legible? If not I'll re post them.

 

What went through that capping, Bosch multi construction bit was it?

 

Do we get to see the repair and praise / take the pi$$ some more? :)

 

 

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4 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Would that be a top hat - which would wonderfully accommdate the hair potentially, pardon the pun, standing on end.

 

Is this a play on the top hat capping he drilled through? :)

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1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

Wait until your brand new nippers go through a shower cable that your apprentice tells you the breaker for has just been switched off. When he's switched off the cooker instead. Thatll shiver your timbers matey :S 

 

Masonry bit bridging the ring cables in a back box when A N Other said it was dead I recall one time. So much for teamwork! :)

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2 hours ago, TerryE said:

BTW Ian, there is always a hazard zone in the vertical and horizontal lines from any pattress.  Like the others have said, a current detector is an excellent precaution, but drilling a hole in the wall directly above light switch is about as safe as sticking a screwdriver into an electrical socket?

But NOBODY other than electricians knows about safe zones, and the number of times I have encountered a picture hung above a switch or a socket, where for aesthetic reasons, they have meticulously measured to ensure the nail or screw is exactly in the centreline of the switch......

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1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

Wait until your brand new nippers go through a shower cable that your apprentice tells you the breaker for has just been switched off. When he's switched off the cooker instead. Thatll shiver your timbers matey :S 

Reminds me of the time I had to replace a hand dryer.  I went to the board, turned off the breaker labelled "gents toilet hand dryer"  A groan came from an adjacent office as I had killed a dozen pc's.  And the hand dryer was still on.

  • Haha 2

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12 hours ago, Onoff said:

The OSG as said above an A5 handy guide to the regs:

[...]

Do we get to see the repair and praise / take the pi$$ some more? :)

 

Got mine today... Scanned it briefly.

Looks like one of those cases where a tiny bit of knowledge might be quite dangerous, so I'll continue to double check before I grope around any more in circuits.

 

Next little challenge.....

20180211_174006.thumb.jpg.545c94da43c76773b9dccec21f115961.jpg

 

Now I need to fill the trench I dug in the wall. There seems to me to be potential for dampish stuff to trickle into the back of the switch. Not good.

 

How do I stop that?

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Ian, first you turn the power off on that lighting circuit, then check it's off, then  unscrew the switch from the pattras.

 

Now you make sure that the surfaces are  prepared according to your fillers instructions.   Then do your filling. You will need at least two fill layers and maybe 3: a bulk fill, a top fill which you will level and sand when dry and maybe a touch up fill because you've notice a few hollows and you are a perfectionist.

 

When it's dry to the touch, remove the crap from the pattras and refix the switch.

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Use something like Toupret filler and then you can force dry it with a hairdryer or hot air gun ;)  Build it up in a few layers, force drying the first two, then top coat and leave to dry naturally. 50 / 50 PVA / water in the trough first. 

Good filler is your friend. 

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Electricians Guide To The Building Regs from the IET is maybe a more practical book for you.

 

I'd 5:1 pva the trench and capping. Sand / cement mortar leaving it 3mm low. Chuck the rest of the pva mix in the mortar. Patching plaster over the top (£2.50 from Wilko / £2.99 from H'base). Paint.

 

Skip the plaster if not staying! :)

 

 

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Foam fill, cut flush, paint! :ph34r:

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37 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

[...]. 

Good filler is your friend. 

 

Good mates (on BH and elsewhere) are your friend(s)

 

You lot have no idea how much I rely on you

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41 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Electricians Guide To The Building Regs from the IET is maybe a more practical book for you.

I'd 5:1 pva the trench and capping. Sand / cement mortar leaving it 3mm low. Chuck the rest of the pva mix in the mortar. Patching plaster over the top (£2.50 from Wilko / £2.99 from H'base). Paint.

[...]

Book on order.

41 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Foam fill, cut flush, paint! :ph34r:

or 

44 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Use something like Toupret filler and then you can force dry it with a hairdryer or hot air gun ;)  Build it up in a few layers, force drying the first two, then top coat and leave to dry naturally. 50 / 50 PVA / water in the trough first. 

[...]

Daddy or chips? Chips or Daddy?

Hmm, I wonder.....

 

Photos later today

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