SteamyTea Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 @Mulberry View Have you thought of making up a cardboard model, then you can play around with ideas in read 3D. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrowhawk Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 1 hour ago, Mulberry View said: I'm starting to think this roof may have to be open and into a short gutter. I'm fast running out of time. Not an architect and slightly facetious, but: Your main entrance is on the other side of the house This runoff is in a corner next to a patio A climber or large potted plant will hide a short gutter from the patio As a bonus, without a parapet your grandchild gets a better view from the window It's not what you planned for, but it sounds like the easiest compromise at this stage. Plus it's easy to maintain. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulberry View Posted June 20 Author Share Posted June 20 1 minute ago, Sparrowhawk said: Not an architect and slightly facetious, but: Your main entrance is on the other side of the house This runoff is in a corner next to a patio A climber or large potted plant will hide a short gutter from the patio As a bonus, without a parapet your grandchild gets a better view from the window It's not what you planned for, but it sounds like the easiest compromise at this stage. Plus it's easy to maintain. I'm starting to think the same way. It's a short section (around 1200mm max), we could have a nice gutter and downpipe on that side. That wouldn't bother me, I guess I just need to understand how the edge would be detailed and if that would look OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 2 minutes ago, Sparrowhawk said: Not an architect and slightly facetious, but: Your main entrance is on the other side of the house This runoff is in a corner next to a patio A climber or large potted plant will hide a short gutter from the patio As a bonus, without a parapet your grandchild gets a better view from the window It's not what you planned for, but it sounds like the easiest compromise at this stage. Plus it's easy to maintain. Nice idea. Could potentially look at a rain chain running in to said potted plant? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 1 minute ago, Mulberry View said: I'm starting to think the same way. It's a short section (around 1200mm max), we could have a nice gutter and downpipe on that side. That wouldn't bother me, I guess I just need to understand how the edge would be detailed and if that would look OK. We had lots of compromises and at the time it feels like a really big deal. But after a while you just move on and then it’s like it always was supposed to be and you wonder why it seemed such a big deal at the time! I know I’m not the only one on here to experience that either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 Exactly. In fact the compromises have forced us to make decisions that have resulted in a better outcome. Necessity being the mother of invention. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulberry View Posted June 20 Author Share Posted June 20 17 minutes ago, Thorfun said: Nice idea. Could potentially look at a rain chain running in to said potted plant? SWMBO would KILL for a rain chain. Honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 15 minutes ago, Mulberry View said: SWMBO would KILL for a rain chain. Honestly. They don’t really work in heavy rainfall. Wife’s uncle has them on his Huf Haus. Nice looking things but slightly impractical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulberry View Posted June 20 Author Share Posted June 20 4 minutes ago, Kelvin said: They don’t really work in heavy rainfall. Wife’s uncle has them on his Huf Haus. Nice looking things but slightly impractical. Yes I know. We might end up with one on a little garden building just as a feature to keep 'er indoors happy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 (edited) On 18/06/2024 at 12:18, Mulberry View said: The rearmost window is not problematic, it's the front one Sorry to say but I think you need to get your metal web joists supports checked not least. I had a quick scant at the photo at the start of your post and it is flagging stuff up at my end as an SE. The ledger piece that has the bolts into .. ICF, I have concerns about that. The method of supporting the metal web joists.. I suspect someone has had a "butcher" at them. I don't say this lightly so please take my observations on board and do something about it. I think you need to get an SE in here as I suspect that your builder may have been "improvising". Next @ETC has been chipping in.. his knowledge of construction details and even more importantly his knowledge of practical construction details seems to me to be exemplary.. my opinion is.. ignore his advice at you peril and have a look at his sugestions seriously. Also appreciate (I do) what ETC is sketching out. It a great demonstration of skill and practical experience, takes many years to perfect and demonstrates how you communicate an idea quickly and effectively. Edited June 20 by Gus Potter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 52 minutes ago, Gus Potter said: Sorry to say but I think you need to get your metal web joists supports checked not least. I got timed out. don't panic about the joists as by the looks of things it can be easily fixed if need be. But you need to get it checked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppleDown Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 8 hours ago, Gus Potter said: Sorry to say but I think you need to get your metal web joists supports checked not least. I had a quick scant at the photo at the start of your post and it is flagging stuff up at my end as an SE. The ledger piece that has the bolts into .. ICF, I have concerns about that. The method of supporting the metal web joists.. I suspect someone has had a "butcher" at them. I don't say this lightly so please take my observations on board and do something about it. I think you need to get an SE in here as I suspect that your builder may have been "improvising". Next @ETC has been chipping in.. his knowledge of construction details and even more importantly his knowledge of practical construction details seems to me to be exemplary.. my opinion is.. ignore his advice at you peril and have a look at his sugestions seriously. Also appreciate (I do) what ETC is sketching out. It a great demonstration of skill and practical experience, takes many years to perfect and demonstrates how you communicate an idea quickly and effectively. Do the joists need to be mechanically attached to the ledger as well? Looks like the top piece is just resting on it and the bottom piece has been cut short? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulberry View Posted June 21 Author Share Posted June 21 (edited) 8 hours ago, Gus Potter said: I got timed out. don't panic about the joists as by the looks of things it can be easily fixed if need be. But you need to get it checked. I greatly appreciate all replies on here, well except for @Dave Jones. Firstly, I am the 'builder'. Nothing has been butchered, I take great offence at that. I have also not improvised. The whole scheme is installed to the absolute letter of the structural design and this mindset is what has led to this post. I am concerned about deviating 'off plan', but I don't think the Architects plan has been thought through. The Ledgers are mounted to the ICF with pairs of M16 bolts at 800 centres and with concrete pads directly through to the back of the timber as seen here. This was agreed with my engineer. The Posi scheme was designed by Pasquill and meets <10mm deflection limits. I have a designer there who has been exceptional and we have carefully examined every detail as I wanted to understand it all. I'd be keen to hear what you think has been butchered as I take great pride in my work and strive for perfection. I know you're a great contributor here and take all (most) advice on board with great appreciation, but I'd love to see/hear some substance to your suggestions as you've added another layer of worry at a time when I could do without it (unless its justified of course). @ETC and I are chatting in DM's. I am beyond grateful for his input and he knows that. Edited June 21 by Mulberry View 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulberry View Posted June 21 Author Share Posted June 21 9 minutes ago, AppleDown said: Do the joists need to be mechanically attached to the ledger as well? Looks like the top piece is just resting on it and the bottom piece has been cut short? I have fixed the Posis that top chord hang down to the Ledger with pairs of good quality 5x85 screws. The short bottom chord is as designed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Another vote for the gutter. I have used Guttercrest for aluminium gutters and I am very happy with them. If the roof is going to be zinc, you could stick to zinc. Expensive though. I have seen the top hung posis in the manual. The only issue may be that the strut should overhang the bearing by 15mm, but if the supplier did the design and calcs to prove it works, then all is good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulberry View Posted June 21 Author Share Posted June 21 1 hour ago, Mr Punter said: Another vote for the gutter. I have used Guttercrest for aluminium gutters and I am very happy with them. If the roof is going to be zinc, you could stick to zinc. Expensive though. I have seen the top hung posis in the manual. The only issue may be that the strut should overhang the bearing by 15mm, but if the supplier did the design and calcs to prove it works, then all is good. Pasquill designed the scheme and it was cross checked by my SE. 45mm bearing is all that was needed. I am almost resigned to gutters now, they are only short lengths and I'd like to beautify them as much as possible ideally with Zinc details/flashing etc. I just need to understand from the Zinc contractor whether he needs to come before the single-ply membrane goes on because there is a 'for and against' regarding who comes first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) You need something that works and is worry free and gutters seems the easiest solution. On the ‘what gets installed first’. I had exactly the same debate. The consensus between the metal roofers, the membrane installers and some other advice was the membrane gets fitted first. The problem this creates is maintenance down the years as you can’t get to it. Edited June 21 by Kelvin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 1 hour ago, Mr Punter said: Another vote for the gutter. I have used Guttercrest for aluminium gutters and I am very happy with them. If the roof is going to be zinc, you could stick to zinc. Expensive though. 43 minutes ago, Mulberry View said: I am almost resigned to gutters now, they are only short lengths and I'd like to beautify them as much as possible ideally with Zinc details/flashing etc. I just need to understand from the Zinc contractor whether he needs to come before the single-ply membrane goes on because there is a 'for and against' regarding who comes first. zinc guttering isn't necessarily stupidly expensive! I fitted zinc gutters to our place and, yes they're a lot more than plastic, but totally worth it and not amazingly more than aluminium guttering. some pictures and details of where we got ours from in 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Our Lindab metal guttering was dearer than the zinc quote. Neither was that dear. This was driven by energy prices apparently as zinc takes less energy to make. What the supplier told me anyway. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulberry View Posted June 21 Author Share Posted June 21 I mean, I'm literally talking about 3 linear metres or so of guttering here, its not going to break the bank! I just want to have it detailed better than a plastic soffit board behind it etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulberry View Posted June 21 Author Share Posted June 21 16 minutes ago, Thorfun said: zinc guttering isn't necessarily stupidly expensive! I fitted zinc gutters to our place and, yes they're a lot more than plastic, but totally worth it and not amazingly more than aluminium guttering. some pictures and details of where we got ours from in Without wanting to get all mushy over some guttering, that looks delightful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 2 minutes ago, Mulberry View said: Without wanting to get all mushy over some guttering, that looks delightful. thank you. my first time fitting guttering. I was very happy with the outcome. 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 3 hours ago, Mulberry View said: almost resigned to gutters now, It's like being reluctant to have a roof. Gutters and downpipes are the only right answer. Lindab is elegant and precise. I've got about 12m of it with special bends. 15 years on still looking good. Just think carefully on the position for the downpipe, and choose a colour to blend or contrast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 58 minutes ago, saveasteading said: choose a colour to blend or contrast. Probably not applicable to you but. Lindab told me that their copper effect finish rwp is often stolen on the assumption that it is made of copper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted Tuesday at 21:44 Share Posted Tuesday at 21:44 On 21/06/2024 at 08:42, Mulberry View said: Firstly, I am the 'builder'. Nothing has been butchered, I take great offence at that. I have also not improvised. The whole scheme is installed to the absolute letter of the structural design and this mindset is what has led to this post. I am concerned about deviating 'off plan', but I don't think the Architects plan has been thought through. The Ledgers are mounted to the ICF with pairs of M16 bolts at 800 centres and with concrete pads directly through to the back of the timber as seen here. This was agreed with my engineer. The Posi scheme was designed by Pasquill and meets <10mm deflection limits. I have a designer there who has been exceptional and we have carefully examined every detail as I wanted to understand it all. I'd be keen to hear what you think has been butchered as I take great pride in my work and strive for perfection. I was bit more diplomatic as I used the word "improvised" @Dave Jones was maybe a bit more forthwrite. @Mulberry View I don't doubt you have done your best and am sure you have not cut corners. However I can tell you as I do this as a day job.. each of the designers may have done a great job.. and you installing it as per the drawings etc. But one of the things I do is to coordinated designs SE wise.. to pick up on the little but important bits that get missed. I often see things like this so don't feel bad. It looks to me that the top flange of your joist is carrying all the shear load on a small bearing area. Think about it.. you have all that floor load and a bit of tying all ending up on the top flange of the joist.. it just looks questionable to me. When I see something like that I always ask.. is this ok? I'm happy to be proved wrong.. I just suck it up.. but if I'm right.. which I am from time to time then it saves a lot of folks bacon. It cost nothing to ask the question, the only cost can be your pride. Please get your design team to review this as if I'm right this is a tiny but major flaw and needs sorted for safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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