Truly DIY SIP construction…

[scottishjohn]

there used to be videos on you-tube of an amercian guy -- larry something --if you stick building try to find those 

he  was the master of stick build using only hammer and a skill saw 

someone might have it saved  

 when i looked tssips there as a scottich compan ythat supplied cement board outer skinned sips panels --again i have lost that link over time since i looked

Edited June 15 by scottishjohn

[scottishjohn]

Ok I fopund them 

larry haun is his name 

 

 there are other of his videos --all worth studing

 

Edited June 15 by scottishjohn

[saveasteading]

39 minutes ago, G and J said:

searches it appears credible,

It is the case. It doesn't sound as if your architect is up on the subject so you should get reading. Building regs document b

[JohnMo]

46 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

there as a scottich compan ythat supplied cement board outer skinned sips panels

The link on page one, do mgo skins - 2 hour fire resistance.

https://www.sipsdirect.co.uk/product/mgo-sip100-1-2m-x-2-4m-x-100mm-panel/

 

[JohnMo]

Mgo has an A1 fire rating (non combustible)

[scottishjohn]

and here is another one on making the roof

 

[G and J]

2 hours ago, saveasteading said:

It is the case. It doesn't sound as if your architect is up on the subject so you should get reading. Building regs document b

In that case I’m guilty of giving a more negative impression of our architect than is reasonable.  We are scheduled in to start detailed design soon, and the discussions we’ve had have been those needed to get through planning, now thankfully obtained.  

[G and J]

2 hours ago, JohnMo said:

The link on page one, do mgo skins - 2 hour fire resistance.

https://www.sipsdirect.co.uk/product/mgo-sip100-1-2m-x-2-4m-x-100mm-panel/

 

I’d identified that EPS based SIPs wouldn’t give any advantage over stick built early on, so I focussed on PU SIPs, and that, combined with the limited thicknesses available in the cement board SIPs lead me to discount them.

[G and J]

38 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

and here is another one on making the roof

 

When I first watched this guys videos I thought, naaaah, can’t be that simple.  We live and learn.  

[saveasteading]

4 hours ago, saveasteading said:

I will look at built-up with mineral wool.

Found it. It still exists but it is too thick to be practical  for domestic insulation (about 250mm) unless there is also an inner skin.

[scottishjohn]

47 minutes ago, G and J said:

When I first watched this guys videos I thought, naaaah, can’t be that simple.  We live and learn.

watch all 3 of his videos --well worth the time  and asumming you will buy amodern nail gun  should be quick as well

[SteamyTea]

Get Larry's books

 

https://www.amazon.com/Very-Efficient-Carpenter-Residential-Construction/dp/156158326X

[joe90]

Or here in the UK.    

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=30366737617&dest=gbr&

[scottishjohn]

the only thing that shouts at me from watching his videos is the rough sort of wood they use in the states

could be the age of the videos ,but not a sign of any CLS type of timber

[G and J]

1 hour ago, scottishjohn said:

the only thing that shouts at me from watching his videos is the rough sort of wood they use in the states

could be the age of the videos ,but not a sign of any CLS type of timber

I noticed that, but I figured that maybe building control might need to be a bit less directive in a country where lots of peeps carry firearms in case anyone annoys them.

[Russell griffiths]

3 hours ago, scottishjohn said:

the only thing that shouts at me from watching his videos is the rough sort of wood they use in the states

could be the age of the videos ,but not a sign of any CLS type of timber

Larry’s videos are all pre cls just 2baaa4 and 2baaaaa6 😉

[G and J]

1 hour ago, Russell griffiths said:

Larry’s videos are all pre cls just 2baaa4 and 2baaaaa6 😉

Are ewe joking? 😉

[scottishjohn]

1 hour ago, G and J said:

Are ewe joking? 😉

no not joking but the methods are still the same 

so for carpentary you won,t go far wrong following him

your plans will show all the dimensional detail you need on wood sizes and quality type --c16 ,c24 etc 

and don,t expect to knock nails in modern  wood with 2 hits like he does 

 he has had 50 years doing it

Edited June 16 by scottishjohn

[Iceverge]

Have you had any more luck with the fire resistance necessity of the wall?

 

I did some perusing. 

 

You'll need fire resistant cladding, which is treated wood or else fiber cement. 

 

Something like the one detailed at the bottom of the page below might be an option although I have no idea where you would find 160*60mm timbers. 

 

https://www.backtoearth.co.uk/news/fire-and-wood-fibre-insulation/

 

Not an engineer with any qualifications in such things but.....

 

I would do something like. 

 

Fire treated 20mm on 20mm vertical lap larch cladding. 

 

20 x 75mm fire treated horizontal battens over vertical 20*75mm strapping. 

 

2*50mm rockwool rain screen slabs with joints staggered. 

 

Breather membrane

 

12mm cement board 

11mm OSB, taped as airtight layer. 

145*44mm studs with full fill cellulose 

15mm fibreboard 

Skim

 

Total thickness about 365mm. 

 

U value about 0.16. 

 

Maybe @Gus Potter or another knowledgeable person could suggest something or comment on my fire resistance guesswork. 

 

[Gus Potter]

1 hour ago, Iceverge said:

Have you had any more luck with the fire resistance necessity of the wall?

 

I did some perusing. 

 

You'll need fire resistant cladding, which is treated wood or else fiber cement. 

 

Something like the one detailed at the bottom of the page below might be an option although I have no idea where you would find 160*60mm timbers. 

 

https://www.backtoearth.co.uk/news/fire-and-wood-fibre-insulation/

 

Not an engineer with any qualifications in such things but.....

 

I would do something like. It's a bit late at night but

 

Fire treated 20mm on 20mm vertical lap larch cladding. 

 

20 x 75mm fire treated horizontal battens over vertical 20*75mm strapping. 

 

2*50mm rockwool rain screen slabs with joints staggered. 

 

Breather membrane

 

12mm cement board 

11mm OSB, taped as airtight layer. 

145*44mm studs with full fill cellulose 

15mm fibreboard 

Skim

 

Total thickness about 365mm. 

 

U value about 0.16. 

 

Maybe @Gus Potter or another knowledgeable person could suggest something or comment on my fire resistance guesswork. 

 

Maybe @Gus Potter

 

Thank you for referencing me.

 

I can chip in but my take on it and the potential solution is long as there are so many aspects to balance... it's late here so maybe for another day.

 

The bit that is hard to do is not actually the cladding spec but how you fire protect the cavity but still allow for ventilation of the cavity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[G and J]

9 hours ago, Iceverge said:

Have you had any more luck with the fire resistance necessity of the wall?

We are due to commence detailed planning soon.  So not yet.

 

Thank you for doing all that, that’s lovely of you.  I will admit I’m becoming apprehensive about the required build up due to fire resistance requirements, but that aside…..  some questions:

 

9 hours ago, Iceverge said:

20 x 75mm fire treated horizontal battens over vertical 20*75mm strapping. 

Is the extra batten width to give greater fire resistance or are you recommending that for stiffness? (Or both?)  I’m assuming strapping is another name for the horizontal battens we will need to clad to.

 

9 hours ago, Iceverge said:

12mm cement board 

11mm OSB, taped as airtight layer. 

I was under the impression that I could sheath our frame directly in cement board, so not needing OSB as well.  Is that correct?  Is there a reason I’m not aware of that both are needed?

 

[G and J]

8 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

The bit that is hard to do is not actually the cladding spec but how you fire protect the cavity but still allow for ventilation of the cavity.

That does sound onerous.  I’m guessing the very updraft one builds in to keep the wood dry is effectively a chimney which will encourage fire to grow quickly.  Scary.

[saveasteading]

Excuse me nit rereading from the start but.

Make your wall with a cement board outer sheet, or brick. No need for a cavity.

Or forget sips.

[G and J]

7 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Excuse me nit rereading from the start but.

Make your wall with a cement board outer sheet, or brick. No need for a cavity.

Or forget sips.

SIPs just couldn’t cost in, now trying to hone my understanding re standard(ish) timber frame.  I’ve finally worked out how to start to use the ubakus thingy and playing with that has been fascinating. 
 

Vertical larch cladding is important to us aesthetically, so whilst I understand the advantage of non combustible materials it’s not what we want.  I’ve posted our plans on our first blog entry in case they’re of interest.  
 

So we’ve got the challenge of construction phase fire resistance (hence cement board sheathing) and resistance to external fire source (treated larch cladding).  I do like a challenge!

[JohnMo]

21 minutes ago, G and J said:

Vertical larch cladding is important to us aesthetically, so whilst I understand the advantage of non combustible materials it’s not what we want.

Taking a pragmatic look at this. You will have larch everywhere except the end of the building which will be some sort of non combustible so will not look the same as the rest of the building. So instead of doing the same effect with different looks which may look odd. Do the polar opposite, do a finish on ends completely different. 

 

Not saying do this, but as an example, we have a mix of cladding and stone slips. So your end walls are fully compliant you get a different design feature and the different design may actually lead to a thinner wall (maybe).

 

A couple of different images