Neighbours not moving the car for the construction of new dropped kerb

[Achu]

Hi all,

I hope you guys remember the post that I posted last year regarding Garrage conversion and parking the car in the rear garden. I am glad to say that we won the appeal, and the highways gave us permission for a dropped kerb. Now the real problem is that the neighbors are not happy with the approval, and they are trying to be problematic with us. One of the neighbors swore at us while the tree surgeons were cutting two ornamental trees in the garden last week, and since then they have parked a car where we plan to construct the dropped kerb. They haven’t moved the car since last Friday. They already know that we are going to construct the dropped kerb soon. The contractor contacted me today and said they were going to start the job on Monday. I am sure they are not going to move that car anytime soon. 
I called the council this morning, and they said they can’t interfere in civil matters, so I called the police, and they said to leave a polite note in the windscreen to move the car for construction. Also, they told me to call them if they didn’t move the car when the contractor was here; they said they would try to find the registered keeper of the car and ask them to move the car. 
I also know that as long as the car has a tax and MOT, they can park on the public road. I just don’t know what to do now. I really appreciate your guys thoughts. Is there any possible way for me to sort out this issue?

Thanks in advance. 

Edited May 8 by Achu

[SteamyTea]

7 minutes ago, Achu said:

I just don’t know what to do now

 

7 minutes ago, Achu said:

I called the police, and they said to leave a polite note in the windscreen to move the car for construction. Also, they told me to call them if they didn’t move the car when the contractor was here; they said they would try to find the registered keeper of the car and ask them to move the car. 

That is your answer.  Not a lot else you can do.

[Achu]

So my question is, if they didn’t move the car even after the police request, what else can we do?? Do we have to wait until that car is moved? That car looks like it’s a spare car in the household with lots of rubbish inside.Are there any alternative options? 

[SteamyTea]

2 minutes ago, Achu said:

Are there any alternative options

Civil action, very costly and hard to enforce.

 

We used to get cars dumped in our carpark.  Tried all the legal routes, took months.

Finally, as if by magic, some evenings the cars got moved and placed across a side road junction.

No idea how it happened, but on the same nights our fork truck was moved as well.

[joe90]

It’s good to hear that the police will get involved, I think you can only wait till Monday and see what they do then.  It might be wise to put the polite notice and inclide that the police have said they will attend on Monday if it is not moved.
 

Re @SteamyTea post above about fork lift trucks, an old friend of mine was a copper patrolling the Glastonbury festival many years ago and people parked their cars on single track roads stopping emergency vehicles having access so he was told to hire a fork lift and move them, he just put them in the ditch, all of them…..

[ProDave]

In the mean time, if the do move the car, immediately park YOUR car there.

[Achu]

18 minutes ago, ProDave said:

In the mean time, if the do move the car, immediately park YOUR car there.

I don’t think they will move, Do you think it’s a wise idea to leave a note on the windscreen ?

On 29/07/2023 at 09:17, Achu said:

Hi all,

I am sorry that I have posted about the issues regarding my garage conversion a few times. I am a bit paranoid at the moment because the planning committee meeting is on August 1st, and I don’t know what’s going to happen because There are over 22 objections from 15 houses to removing my back fence to park my car.

Actually, the main application is for Garrage conversion, and the removal of the fence is also included with the application.

I was supposed to get the decision by May, and it’s been delayed due to all these objections.

 

I have a few questions regarding the application. If someone could help me,

1) The planning department is 100% supporting our application, but still, there is a chance for the committee members to reject the application, isn't there?

 

2) Even if everything is favourable, on what basis can the committee members reject the application? The highway authority also doesn’t have any safety concerns about the proposal, but the neighbours are pointing out that it’s not safe to park the car in the back garden due to a lack of space to turn the car.

 

If the committee rejects the application and I go for an appeal, who will decide the planning application a second time? I hope all the decisions will be based on planning grounds.

 

I have attached the link to the committee report. If someone could read it and tell me what they think about it,

I am sorry if anyone feels annoyed.

 

https://iawpa.horsham.gov.uk/PublicAccess_LIVE/SearchResult/RunThirdPartySearch?FileSystemId=DH&FOLDER1_REF=DC/23/0324

 

 

1 hour ago, Achu said:

 

 

[Chanmenie]

Just drag it out of the way.

[Achu]

5 minutes ago, Chanmenie said:

Just drag it out of the way.

I am thinking about that but don’t know what will happen after that, probably they can file a case against me ?  Seen this in Amazon but I am sure it’s against the law if I do this 

https://amzn.eu/d/hfxbiIh

 

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

In the mean time, if the do move the car, immediately park YOUR car there.

I don’t think they will move, Do you think it’s a wise idea to leave a note on the windscreen ?

On 29/07/2023 at 09:17, Achu said:

Hi all,

I am sorry that I have posted about the issues regarding my garage conversion a few times. I am a bit paranoid at the moment because the planning committee meeting is on August 1st, and I don’t know what’s going to happen because There are over 22 objections from 15 houses to removing my back fence to park my car.

Actually, the main application is for Garrage conversion, and the removal of the fence is also included with the application.

I was supposed to get the decision by May, and it’s been delayed due to all these objections.

 

I have a few questions regarding the application. If someone could help me,

1) The planning department is 100% supporting our application, but still, there is a chance for the committee members to reject the application, isn't there?

 

2) Even if everything is favourable, on what basis can the committee members reject the application? The highway authority also doesn’t have any safety concerns about the proposal, but the neighbours are pointing out that it’s not safe to park the car in the back garden due to a lack of space to turn the car.

 

If the committee rejects the application and I go for an appeal, who will decide the planning application a second time? I hope all the decisions will be based on planning grounds.

 

I have attached the link to the committee report. If someone could read it and tell me what they think about it,

I am sorry if anyone feels annoyed.

 

https://iawpa.horsham.gov.uk/PublicAccess_LIVE/SearchResult/RunThirdPartySearch?FileSystemId=DH&FOLDER1_REF=DC/23/0324

 

 

2 hours ago, Achu said:

 

 

[Chanmenie]

Couple of trolly jacks, just don't damage the car then there’s sod all they can do 

[Nickfromwales]

Have the council said you can have a white line painted across the dropped section to prevent cars parking there? Kind of moving the problem sideways as they'll just park it right back there after the crossover is done.

 

Last resort;

Ask a kind Pikey to 'collect' it......

[Achu]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

In the mean time, if the do move the car, immediately park YOUR car there.

yes we can ask the council for a marking once the cross over is been done. 

1 hour ago, Chanmenie said:

Just drag it out of the way.

I am thinking about that but don’t know what will happen after that, probably they can file a case against me ?  Seen this in Amazon but I am sure it’s against the law if I do this 

https://amzn.eu/d/hfxbiIh

 

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

In the mean time, if the do move the car, immediately park YOUR car there.

I don’t think they will move, Do you think it’s a wise idea to leave a note on the windscreen ?

On 29/07/2023 at 09:17, Achu said:

Hi all,

I am sorry that I have posted about the issues regarding my garage conversion a few times. I am a bit paranoid at the moment because the planning committee meeting is on August 1st, and I don’t know what’s going to happen because There are over 22 objections from 15 houses to removing my back fence to park my car.

Actually, the main application is for Garrage conversion, and the removal of the fence is also included with the application.

I was supposed to get the decision by May, and it’s been delayed due to all these objections.

 

I have a few questions regarding the application. If someone could help me,

1) The planning department is 100% supporting our application, but still, there is a chance for the committee members to reject the application, isn't there?

 

2) Even if everything is favourable, on what basis can the committee members reject the application? The highway authority also doesn’t have any safety concerns about the proposal, but the neighbours are pointing out that it’s not safe to park the car in the back garden due to a lack of space to turn the car.

 

If the committee rejects the application and I go for an appeal, who will decide the planning application a second time? I hope all the decisions will be based on planning grounds.

 

I have attached the link to the committee report. If someone could read it and tell me what they think about it,

I am sorry if anyone feels annoyed.

 

https://iawpa.horsham.gov.uk/PublicAccess_LIVE/SearchResult/RunThirdPartySearch?FileSystemId=DH&FOLDER1_REF=DC/23/0324

 

 

4 hours ago, Achu said:

 

 

[Adsibob]

You may as well put a note on the car windscreen explaining that the work WILL commence and if their car is in the way, the work could accidentally damage it. I can’t see how there is much to lose from putting that there.

 

 As for shifting it yourself, I can’t identify any criminal issue. Moving it might give rise to the tort of unlawful interference in goods, but as long as you don’t damage the car, there isn’t any loss that they could actually claim. 
 

There is no applicable precedent from the following, but I thought I would share it nonetheless as an example of how out of hand these things can get:

 

Edited May 8 by Adsibob

[joe90]

I would not move their car as your neighbours already sound like pikey,s and will seek revenge (IMO). Do what the police say and leave a note so if it does escalate you’re squeaky clean. (Your contractors might just bounce it out the way fir you).

[Blooda]

Get your contractor to knock on their door, and politely give them a copy of [official documents] the permit, highway contractor's licence, and TM plan, and explain that work is going to commence on Monday, and it would be in their benefit to move the car.  

 

Kindly mention if it isn't moved, they will call the police, to supervise removal.

 

[Bozza]

Surely they will need to move their car at some point in which case put your car there or something immovable.

 
In first instance speak politely to the neighbour.  If he’s being a di£k, send the neighbour a letter.  An extremely polite and non threatening letter eg don’t say if you don’t move it I’ll call the police.  You’ll need to specify a date of the works you can’t ask them not to park there in perpetuity.  

 

If you get no response whatsoever or a negative response, send another letter by recorded delivery so they cannot claim they didn’t get it.  Again being polite and reasonable.    But refer to previous letter and a copy of the pp.   On the day of works ask them to move it, if they refuse:
 

 Regulation 103 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 states that “no person in charge of a motor vehicle or trailer may cause or permit the vehicle or trailer to stand on a road so as to cause any unnecessary obstruction of the road”.  

Your workers inevitably will need to access part of the road outside your house to carry out lawful works per PP.  at this point in light of his belligerent refusal to move his car, you could argue that he is in contravention of this regulation.  If an attending police officer agrees, they may not, he/she has powers to have the car moved.   Be aware not every cop knows every bit of every legislation verbatim so have a printout of this regulation.  The police call handler almost certainly won’t know this either.   Your case is stronger if you have evidence that the parking was deliberately obstructive, hence the letters plus for example photos of his car being parked there AFTER the letters being sent and prior to the day of works.    Evidence of unnecessary obstruction is the key element.

 

You’re asking for trouble if you move his car without some form of court order.  He alleges you’ve moved and damaged his car.  Calls police.  Etc etc.

 

In ANY neighbourly dispute it’s really important that you don’t do anything that inflames the situation & puts you in the category of being a di£k.  Let the other person be that and you’re more likely to get more help from the authorities.  

In a lot of neighbourly disputes it’s hard for the police to identify the true victim because the initial victim takes action that inflames and extends the dispute.  I should know, I’m a retired cop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

[Achu]

Thank you so much for the reply. I will do as you suggest. What if the contractor moves the car by themselves? Still, am I the one who is responsible for that?

The car is parked approximately 10–15 cm on the curb. Again,  my question is: what if they move a little bit on the sideways to get the job done? Sorry, I am a bit anxious now, and I am sorry if my question is stupid.

So you are saying if I do all the necessary steps that you have mentioned plus show Regulation 103 to the police officer whoever comes on site during the day of work 

Will it help to move the car? 

 

 Regulation 103 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 states that “no person in charge of a motor vehicle or trailer may cause or permit the vehicle or trailer to stand on a road so as to cause any unnecessary obstruction of the road”.  

 

I hope this is not applicable for the construction vehicles only to stand in the road and cause unnecessary obstruction. Sorry, I am not questioning your statement; I just need clarity. 

[Dave Jones]

17 hours ago, Chanmenie said:

Just drag it out of the way.

 

just do this. they wont file anything clowns are all talk. 

[joe90]

22 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

 

just do this. they wont file anything clowns are all talk. 

I wouldn’t, I have had to deal with pikeys in the past, do as the police advise, if the contractors shift it thats on their head not yours. 

[Achu]

5 hours ago, Bozza said:

Surely they will need to move their car at some point in which case put your car there or something immovable.

 
In first instance speak politely to the neighbour.  If he’s being a di£k, send the neighbour a letter.  An extremely polite and non threatening letter eg don’t say if you don’t move it I’ll call the police.  You’ll need to specify a date of the works you can’t ask them not to park there in perpetuity.  

 

If you get no response whatsoever or a negative response, send another letter by recorded delivery so they cannot claim they didn’t get it.  Again being polite and reasonable.    But refer to previous letter and a copy of the pp.   On the day of works ask them to move it, if they refuse:
 

 Regulation 103 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 states that “no person in charge of a motor vehicle or trailer may cause or permit the vehicle or trailer to stand on a road so as to cause any unnecessary obstruction of the road”.  

Your workers inevitably will need to access part of the road outside your house to carry out lawful works per PP.  at this point in light of his belligerent refusal to move his car, you could argue that he is in contravention of this regulation.  If an attending police officer agrees, they may not, he/she has powers to have the car moved.   Be aware not every cop knows every bit of every legislation verbatim so have a printout of this regulation.  The police call handler almost certainly won’t know this either.   Your case is stronger if you have evidence that the parking was deliberately obstructive, hence the letters plus for example photos of his car being parked there AFTER the letters being sent and prior to the day of works.    Evidence of unnecessary obstruction is the key element.

 

You’re asking for trouble if you move his car without some form of court order.  He alleges you’ve moved and damaged his car.  Calls police.  Etc etc.

 

In ANY neighbourly dispute it’s really important that you don’t do anything that inflames the situation & puts you in the category of being a di£k.  Let the other person be that and you’re more likely to get more help from the authorities.  

In a lot of neighbourly disputes it’s hard for the police to identify the true victim because the initial victim takes action that inflames and extends the dispute.  I should know, I’m a retired cop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

Please look into my comment regarding your advice 

Thanks 

[Achu]

5 hours ago, Bozza said:

Surely they will need to move their car at some point in which case put your car there or something immovable.

 
In first instance speak politely to the neighbour.  If he’s being a di£k, send the neighbour a letter.  An extremely polite and non threatening letter eg don’t say if you don’t move it I’ll call the police.  You’ll need to specify a date of the works you can’t ask them not to park there in perpetuity.  

 

If you get no response whatsoever or a negative response, send another letter by recorded delivery so they cannot claim they didn’t get it.  Again being polite and reasonable.    But refer to previous letter and a copy of the pp.   On the day of works ask them to move it, if they refuse:
 

 Regulation 103 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 states that “no person in charge of a motor vehicle or trailer may cause or permit the vehicle or trailer to stand on a road so as to cause any unnecessary obstruction of the road”.  

Your workers inevitably will need to access part of the road outside your house to carry out lawful works per PP.  at this point in light of his belligerent refusal to move his car, you could argue that he is in contravention of this regulation.  If an attending police officer agrees, they may not, he/she has powers to have the car moved.   Be aware not every cop knows every bit of every legislation verbatim so have a printout of this regulation.  The police call handler almost certainly won’t know this either.   Your case is stronger if you have evidence that the parking was deliberately obstructive, hence the letters plus for example photos of his car being parked there AFTER the letters being sent and prior to the day of works.    Evidence of unnecessary obstruction is the key element.

 

You’re asking for trouble if you move his car without some form of court order.  He alleges you’ve moved and damaged his car.  Calls police.  Etc etc.

 

In ANY neighbourly dispute it’s really important that you don’t do anything that inflames the situation & puts you in the category of being a di£k.  Let the other person be that and you’re more likely to get more help from the authorities.  

In a lot of neighbourly disputes it’s hard for the police to identify the true victim because the initial victim takes action that inflames and extends the dispute.  I should know, I’m a retired cop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much for the reply. I will do as you suggest. What if the contractor moves the car by themselves? Still, am I the one who is responsible for that?

The car is parked approximately 10–15 cm on the curb. Again,  my question is: what if they move a little bit on the sideways to get the job done? Sorry, I am a bit anxious now, and I am sorry if my question is stupid.

So you are saying if I do all the necessary steps that you have mentioned plus show Regulation 103 to the police officer whoever comes on site during the day of work 

Will it help to move the car? 

 

 

 Regulation 103 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 states that “no person in charge of a motor vehicle or trailer may cause or permit the vehicle or trailer to stand on a road so as to cause any unnecessary obstruction of the road”.  

 

I hope this is not applicable for the construction vehicles only to stand in the road and cause unnecessary obstruction. Sorry, I am not questioning your statement; I just need clarity. 

 

•  

[SteamyTea]

5 hours ago, Bozza said:

 I should know, I’m a retired cop

Bozza the Rozzer

[Bozza]

41 minutes ago, Achu said:

 

 

Thank you so much for the reply. I will do as you suggest. What if the contractor moves the car by themselves? Still, am I the one who is responsible for that?

The car is parked approximately 10–15 cm on the curb. Again,  my question is: what if they move a little bit on the sideways to get the job done? Sorry, I am a bit anxious now, and I am sorry if my question is stupid.

So you are saying if I do all the necessary steps that you have mentioned plus show Regulation 103 to the police officer whoever comes on site during the day of work 

Will it help to move the car? 

 

 

 Regulation 103 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 states that “no person in charge of a motor vehicle or trailer may cause or permit the vehicle or trailer to stand on a road so as to cause any unnecessary obstruction of the road”.  

 

I hope this is not applicable for the construction vehicles only to stand in the road and cause unnecessary obstruction. Sorry, I am not questioning your statement; I just need clarity. 

 

•  

 

if the contractor moves the car it’s a matter between them and the car owner, nothing to do with you. 
If the car is on the pavement at all that’s potentially an obstruction to the pavement.

in terms of section 103.   Its down to an individual officer in how they interpret any legislation in any particular scenario.  Ultimately that legislation is not designed for arsey neighbours in your scenario but more for people just abandoning their vehicle in the middle of the road.  It will boil down to the individual officer and how they choose to apply an legislation..  If you do need to phone the police do so reporting a vehicle unnecessarily obstructing access to part of a road namely the kerb.  
if you think about it, logically, say the council were building a new junction and some plonker decides just to plonk  their car in the middle of the roadworks it’s inconceivable that the road traffic act would deem that lawful.

 

likewise no it’s clearly not an offence for construction vehicles to park on your road because that’s not an unnecessary obstruction.  Unless for example they parked across a driveway fur example.

 

This is why I was advising about evidence of unnecessary obstruction.  Clearly it’s never an offence to park in the street even in front of a neighbours house.   Your neighbour can park there all day long.  However the difference being access to that part of the road by your workmen is necessary and lawful.  And if the neighbour knows this (hence advance letter) and that  is evidence of him parking there deliberately for no other reason to obstruct that access then sec 103 could potentially kick in if the officer chooses to use & apply that legislation in that way.  If they do that gives them powers to have the car shifted, at the expense of the owner.  If threatened with that, the owner is likely to move the car and problem solved.

 

but all of this may not be relevant if the guy moves the car before your workmen arrive.

 

I regularly used to use legislation creatively as a means to an end to resolve issues aka the ways and means act, a lot will depend upon the capability and judgement of the individual officer attending TBH.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bozza]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

Bozza the Rozzer

Just as well my username isn’t Tig or Mig.

[SteamyTea]

13 minutes ago, Bozza said:

Just as well my username isn’t Tig or Mig.

When I was a kid I found some of those green brazing goggles.

Popped them on and was quite fascinated in how they made everything green.

Guy stopped in his car and said 'hey, just think how great everything would look whizzing along in my car'

I said 'I only found these, I am not really a (expletive deleted)ing nonce welder'