Interconnected smokes, junction box?

[Super_Paulie]

afternoon.

Is there any particular reason why i couldnt use a central junction location to distribute my phase, neutral and interlink to my smoke alarms?

 

My reasoning being that i would rather not have to remove final flooring in the future to get to the back of the alarms to chain it to a new one, i could have a Wago enclosure or similar in an easy to access location say under a hatch in the landing. So i can get all my new alarms in now in the new side of the house and in the future i could add in new to the existing part without having to pull all the new floors up. BC are happy with my proposed locations to LD3 but i would in the future add more to upgrade to LD2.

[ProDave]

No reason why not, but I would not.  I would just run cables to the ones you can with a spur running off ready for the next stage, long enough to reach it's eventual destination and terminated so it is safe until you are ready for the next phase of the job.

[mike2016]

I'm looking at using Aico smoke alarms with a 4 core wire to power & Connect them and a home assistant extension to get alerts into some type of trigger that can power down MVHR and pulse me an alert on my mobile. Interesting when sequencing makes you think ahead and future proofing to avoid issues - these forums always make me look around the next corner with the replies. 

 

[JohnMo]

2 minutes ago, mike2016 said:

I'm looking at using Aico smoke alarms with a 4 core wire to power & Connect them and a home assistant extension to get alerts into some type of trigger that can power down MVHR and pulse me an alert on my mobile. Interesting when sequencing makes you think ahead and future proofing to avoid issues - these forums always make me look around the next corner with the replies. 

 

Wouldn't the following occur with a decent fire (likely to initiate from an electrical issue unless you smoke).

Main MCB - Power trips - so the battery in fire alarm is now powering it.

Home assistant off, as there is no power 

MVHR off, as there is no power

 

So why bother with the automation - not sure going to do anything.

[mike2016]

It's about getting an early alert if I'm out and about. All the alarms will sound locally if any detect smoke/heat (depending on detector) on mains or battery as you've stated. But isn't there a likely gap between a room fire vs a structure fire with only the latter likely to start interfering with whole house electrics rather than a single MCB/RCBO in the case of a room? 

It would be nice to be able to plug in extra detectors to extend as the original poster wanted but we'd have to have sockets in the ceilings for that! 

 

[Super_Paulie]

I guess i could just add and leave cables and then connect to them with Wago when the time comes, it's just adding joints whereas I thought the central location might have been the better option for future expansion and less joints in the system.

[FuerteStu]

I've not refurbished the kitchen yet.. But I've already fitted the three smokes in the utility (boiler and washing machine) and the upstairs hallway.. 

 

I left a loop in the middle of where the kitchen will be, right above where I've cut a hole that is temporarily plugged. 

 

When I fit out the kitchen, I'll pull the loop down and cut and terminate the head then. 

 

It means it's in one radial and they're all linked. 

[JohnMo]

2 minutes ago, FuerteStu said:

boiler

Don't forget the CO detector.

 

In Scotland you are now not allowed to install smoke detectors in a kitchen you have install heat detectors - less  false activations 

[Wil]

5 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Wouldn't the following occur with a decent fire (likely to initiate from an electrical issue unless you smoke).

Main MCB - Power trips - so the battery in fire alarm is now powering it.

Home assistant off, as there is no power 

MVHR off, as there is no power

 

So why bother with the automation - not sure going to do anything.

HA runs on an old laptop so a few hours of battery life. House and all automation runs off central batteries, so only the tripped circuit is lost.

 

It's definitely worth knowing if the smokes have gone off. Someone on here connected their Aico alarm relay to a shelly which is great. With a shelly pro (ethernet connection) it's even more reliable.

 

Of course if the fire isn't extinguished and you aren't there- knowing about it is a bit of a moot point.

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

8 hours ago, Wil said:

Of course if the fire isn't extinguished and you aren't there- knowing about it is a bit of a moot point.

A bit like watching your house getting burgled on the 15 CCTV cameras you've installed.

[Super_Paulie]

"just had a notification to say the house is massively on fire, better finish this pint and head off"

[JohnMo]

10 hours ago, Wil said:

only the tripped circuit is lost.

Never experienced just a single circuit tripping, normally throws the whole board off

[Nickfromwales]

On 09/05/2024 at 09:45, JohnMo said:

Never experienced just a single circuit tripping, normally throws the whole board off

All RCBO boards only lose 1 at a time as the main switch has no RCD  

[Super_Paulie]

On 08/05/2024 at 17:03, mike2016 said:

I'm looking at using Aico smoke alarms with a 4 core wire to power & Connect them and a home assistant extension to get alerts into some type of trigger that can power down MVHR and pulse me an alert on my mobile. Interesting when sequencing makes you think ahead and future proofing to avoid issues - these forums always make me look around the next corner with the replies. 

 

Having done the job now, did you ever go with what you suggested Mike? 

For no other reason other than "just coz" I was wondering if I could rig a smart relay to the system so I get the notification when the relay switches. 

I guess this would be dependant on how the interconnect works, I'd imagine it puts a live on that line when triggered, but I doubt it would be 240v.

 

All fairly pointless, but just a thought.

[ProDave]

The Aico interconnect works at 9V dc.  Is still works and the interconnected alarms still sound if the 230V is off and they are working on their backup batteries.

[Temp]

Had fun with our interlinked alarms. The electrician accidentally swapped two wires going upstairs. This appeared to mean two  were running on their Batteries the whole time. After a few months they started chirping to tell us the batteries were low. Only realised something was wrong when new Duracell batteries also only lasted a few months.

[JohnMo]

10 minutes ago, Temp said:

Only realised something was wrong when new Duracell batteries also only lasted a few months

Replaceable battery are not allowed in Scotland. So are all 9 year life battery or mains and long life battery. Ours are all interlinked but not by wires.

 

1 hour ago, Super_Paulie said:

wondering if I could rig a smart relay to the system so I get the notification when the relay switches

If it's an electrical fire would the mains trip and therefore no relay or smart notifications?

[ProDave]

7 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Replaceable battery are not allowed in Scotland. So are all 9 year life battery or mains and long life battery. Ours are all interlinked but not by wires.

The later Aico ones that we have are mains powered and interlinked.  It is not clear if the internal batter is rechargeable or a 10 years lithium.  Regardless they all have a "replace by" date 10 years from manufacture.

[Super_Paulie]

44 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

 

If it's an electrical fire would the mains trip and therefore no relay or smart notifications?

 

It's more to note that the missus is burning the dinner...

[JohnMo]

 

 

48 minutes ago, Super_Paulie said:

 

It's more to note that the missus is burning the dinner...

 Is that so you can get a chippy on the way home?

 

Another difference with Scotland smoke alarm not allowed in kitchen has to be heat alarm. So unless she burns the house down while she's at, you still get a burnt tea!

Edited April 17 by JohnMo

[Super_Paulie]

2 hours ago, JohnMo said:

 

 

 Is that so you can get a chippy on the way home?

 

Another difference with Scotland smoke alarm not allowed in kitchen has to be heat alarm. So unless she burns the house down while she's at, you still get a burnt tea!

It is actually a heat alarm I have down there to be fair. I've got a smart relay in every light switch with triggers from doorbell, automatic velux, Google home etc, just seemed like it might be interesting to do. Add it to the rainy day pile when I'm bored. Small relay that trips via the interconnect which in turn trips the smart relay and a routine to send me a notification. 

 

Meh, it'll never happen.

[MikeSharp01]

5 hours ago, ProDave said:

The later Aico ones that we have are mains powered and interlinked.  It is not clear if the internal batter is rechargeable or a 10 years lithium.  Regardless they all have a "replace by" date 10 years from manufacture.

Are they still talking with 9V?

[ProDave]

17 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Are they still talking with 9V?

The hard wired interlink will be the same so old and new generation alarms work together.  But it is increasingly common for them to be wireless linked.

[Super_Paulie]

I'm not in a position to test but I assume it puts out 9v on "interconnect" when the alarm triggers so you could put a relay on that which trips the 240 smart relay, thus providing the smart/digital trigger.

[MikeSharp01]

So that would be 9V AC relative to Neutral, wonder why they chose 🤔