Manhole replacement: were my expectations too high?

[Almost Aviation]

I just had a manhole replaced by a 'reputable' company and I am not satisfied. It cost £963 and the work was done in less than a hour. I had them redo it (see below for why), which they did by fitting a different manhole, taking just 30 minutes that time. It's still not right. I am thinking about making a Section 75 claim for a refund, or a claim through Checkatrade, but I want a reality check from someone more knowledgeable than I am...

 

Without going into too much detail, I had a cast-iron manhole over my foul waste inspection chamber, which is in the main patio area outside my kitchen window. The old frame was rusted out and had big holes, so it was letting out unpleasant smells. I agreed a fixed price to replace it with a new one, to include dropping it down a bit as the top course of bricks was in poor condition.

 

The price was, to me, an eye-watering £963, but I agreed it in advance, so there it is. The first time they fitted a manhole that was too small and so set it diagonally on the bricks. It was a cheap steel manhole from B&Q, with a plastic frame and, predictably, once I put weight on it the whole frame was flexing like a trampoline and the mortar cracked along both long sides. This entire job - including breaking out the old cover and removing a course of bricks - was done in less than a hour.

 

Take 2, and the (same) contractor fitted a larger (60cm square) cover of similar type. It took him 30 minutes to remove the first manhole and install the second one. BUT, the frame is not square so the lid doesn't fit unless you force it on. It only fits at all because the contractor has bashed it along two complete sides with a hammer to bend the rim. It also doesn't sit flat, but wobbles from corner to corner. A quick check with a spirit level shows that this is because it's been set with a vertical twist in the frame. I also think the frame is still too small lengthwise, as it leaves one end of the frame overhanging a bit. The frame is steel (but bendy) and flexes at two sides when you walk on it, which it shouldn't.

 

Needless to say, the new manhole doesn't seal and I still get smells from the drain, which is a shared line for the street.

 

I had a second contractor from the same company come to look (so 3rd visit overall). He said it's all fine and that all of my concerns were about things that are 'normal'. He suggested I just seal the cover with silicone sealant. I could do this, of course, but that's not really the point. He told me they didn't supply a cast-iron manhole in the correct size because 'you can't get them', but with ten minutes of internet searching I was able to source a 1.5 ton cast-iron manhole of the correct size from manholecovers.co.uk for about £90.

 

It seems to me that £963 is a lot of money in the first place for a job such as this (the actual quote was £1014, but they gave me an 'NHS discount'). But surely it is inconceivable that you can expect to do such a job to a decent standard in 30 minutes (or in 50 minutes with the demolition part)?

 

Pragmatically, what they've left for me will 'do', assuming I seal it with silicone, and although I would really prefer to install the cast-iron cover myself or get someone else to do it properly, I am loath to do so because it has already held up my deck project for 3 weeks. But I am not happy having paid so much for a bodge job, so I feel justified in trying to reclaim some or all of my money.

 

What do people think?

[Big Jimbo]

The first thing i would ask is what was quoted on the estimate ?

[Almost Aviation]

1 hour ago, Big Jimbo said:

The first thing i would ask is what was quoted on the estimate ?

 

They quoted a fixed price, to remove the old frame and top layer of bricks, then supply and install a new frame and lid with all the mortaring that entails.

[Canski]

I’m in the wrong game. 

[markocosic]

You asked for / contracted for a cover fitted. You have a cover fitted. That's the sum total of your arrangement.

 

Not a leg to stand on unless you're being explicit with what you ask for / the counterparty has sound commercial reason to do better.

 

You used checkatrade. As you now know that's mostly for the disreputable trades who aren't busy by word of mouth; plus a couple of newbies just starting out.

 

I'd buy the correct manhole and a sack of cement and watch a couple of Youtube if I were in your position. Chalk giving £1000 to the lads to buy oats for their horses up as school fees/learning the hard way how not to contract.

 

If you do decide to silicone your existing mess; lift it, silicone the seat, then wrap the lid in cling film before placing it gently in position until your silicone sets. This way you'll have half a chance of removing it in future.

 

 

Checkatrade are entirely complicit in the game if you read their T&Cs.

[Mattg4321]

If the work isn’t up to scratch, stuff paying them the full amount. 

[Almost Aviation]

1 hour ago, markocosic said:

You asked for / contracted for a cover fitted. You have a cover fitted. That's the sum total of your arrangement.

 

But they have an obligation to do it to a reasonable standard, I think.

[TonyT]

Sorry I’m confused did you ask for a price to complete the work and specify a time frame?

 

 

[Almost Aviation]

3 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Sorry I’m confused did you ask for a price to complete the work and specify a time frame?

 

I agreed a price to complete the work, and we agreed a date. So yes, I think?

[Crunchynut]

I’m really sorry you’ve been ripped off. It pains me to see this happen so often when people don’t have an aptitude for these things and have to trust someone else to do it. The job they have done is so simple and there really is no excuse to have not done a competent job, even at half the cost. If you have already paid them then I don’t think there is much hope of progress. There ought to be, but their attitude thus far suggests not.
 

As @markocosic says, I’d buy in one of those sturdy manhole covers and do it yourself. I wouldn’t go in the direction of silicon - it probably won’t be terribly successful and will just make a bad job worse.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Crunchynut

[TonyT]

3 minutes ago, Almost Aviation said:

 

I agreed a price to complete the work, and we agreed a date. So yes, I think?

No, I think you have no specification, so it’s your word against theirs.

 

[Almost Aviation]

15 minutes ago, TonyT said:

No, I think you have no specification, so it’s your word against theirs.=

 

Sorry, I don't understand your point.

[Almost Aviation]

34 minutes ago, Crunchynut said:

As @markocosic says, I’d buy in one of those sturdy manhole covers and do it yourself. I wouldn’t go in the direction of silicon - it probably won’t be terribly successful and will just make a bad job worse.

 

Well I've done the first part, so I'm due the hardware by tomorrow! Assuming it's as expected, I'm confident I can do a better job with a couple of hours and some Wickes premix mortar. The main reason I opted for a 'professional' job was that the manhole will shortly be buried under a deck, so even with an access panel it will be very difficult to work on if there are any problems.

[nod]

The moral of this is Get more than one quote Tough lesson 

 

[Eric]

Take before & after photos.

 

Getting ripped off sucks, trades are getting worse!

 

[Jilly]

When you do the deck, make sure you have some way of accessing it in case you need to rod it…

[Crunchynut]

11 hours ago, nod said:

The moral of this is Get more than one quote Tough lesson 

 

True, but I prefer “If You Can, Do It Yourself”

 

I’d  rather do a 90% job myself than get a <90% job that I’d actually paid someone for.

[Almost Aviation]

11 hours ago, nod said:

The moral of this is Get more than one quote Tough lesson 

 

I did get more than one quote. The price isn't the issue, I was prepared to pay that for a job done quickly and to a good standard. The problem is it wasn't done to a good standard. If they had charged me £250 I would just write it off, but the discrepancy between the price and what they delivered is vast.

[ProDave]

It is a shame you did not ask here in the first place.  Most of us would have told you £960 is way too much for such a simple job.

 

Care to post pictures of the poor job done?  Before and after if possible.

 

As others say, these check your trade type sites are where the poor tradesmen advertise.  The rest of us never advertise anywhere as we get plenty of work through personal recommendations.

 

There is usually some form of local facebook group you could ask for a recommended local tradesman.  Although I don't do facebook myself, I know such groups exist as several customers chose me because I was recommended on fb when they asked.

[Almost Aviation]

6 minutes ago, ProDave said:

It is a shame you did not ask here in the first place.  Most of us would have told you £960 is way too much for such a simple job.

 

Care to post pictures of the poor job done?  Before and after if possible.

 

As others say, these check your trade type sites are where the poor tradesmen advertise.  The rest of us never advertise anywhere as we get plenty of work through personal recommendations.

 

There is usually some form of local facebook group you could ask for a recommended local tradesman.  Although I don't do facebook myself, I know such groups exist as several customers chose me because I was recommended on fb when they asked.

 

I will post some pictures in a bit, although I'm not sure how dramatic they will be. It's hard to show an out-of-level frame as anything other than a bubble on a spirit level!

[saveasteading]

Good luck with it. Perfectly doable diy, but take your time in getting the frame level. Then walk away fir an hour or mire to let it set properly.  Heavy manholes can be tricky to handle and , of course, mustn't be dropped in the hole. Look on the cover to see if it says to slide it. Manhole keys can be essential , depending on your model and even more important for lifting it out again.

Don't use silicone. If it needs sealing, use grease. 

 

 

[Almost Aviation]

As requested, I am posting some pictures to give an idea of the landscape. From a distance, this might look better than it did, but the devil is in the details.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Aftermath:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Almost Aviation
Added another 'before' pic :)

[Super_Paulie]

looks ok to my non-drainage eyes. But if it stinks still then yeah its not ideal.

But thats a £500 job tops surely.

[Carrerahill]

18 hours ago, Almost Aviation said:

...which is a shared line for the street.

So it is a sewer? Why are you getting this work done then?

[saveasteading]

16 hours ago, TonyT said:

I think you have no specification, so it’s your word against theirs.

 

17 hours ago, markocosic said:

You have a cover fitted. That's the sum total of your arrangement.

 

Now we have seen the pictures, I think there is an implied expectation of a replacement to the same quality and size, especially as this is a readily available product, unless they said they proposed the inferior options. 

 

So yes, you could reject their work. 

I'm guessing they were cash merchants and you've paid.