CLT cost and trades

[RookieInBristol]

Morning e’ryone

Looking into CLT for our superstructure, love the interior aesthetics, and the speed of construction is a huge benefit also.

Finding indicative cost information for CLT is very difficult. Can anyone give me a steer on price per m2? 
Also, anyone with experience using CLT, did you find that trades were reticent to work with the system? Did you use a single firm to design, supply and install?

 

We’re exploring using Kingspan quadcore insulated steel panels, battoned to the exterior envelope to reduce overall cost while giving an agricultural look and v impressive u values.

 

thanks!

Josh

[ProDave]

Speaking from an electricians point of view, CLT was a right pain in the proverbial.  I suspect the same was true for the plumber.

 

But it may depend on what you are trying to achieve.

 

The one I did, they used CLT for the structure and the finished wall surface inside.  So that meant the structure was built, services were fitted so all socket positions set in stone wood, the wiring then went on the outside of the CLT which then got clad in insulation (routed out for the cables) and some form of exterior rain shield.

 

It was more awkward to do, but above all what I did not like was the complete inflexibility to make ANY changes to the wiring. you have to get it right first time.

 

Of course if your CLT is not remaining on show as the finished interior wall, and you have a normal service void none of that applies, but then I ask what does CLT give you that any other timber frame does not in that case?

[Mr Punter]

Bear in mind that the property will be more expensive to insure and difficult to mortgage an sell on.

[TonyT]

What’s CLT?  
You should use the full non abbreviated wording and then abbreviate 

[ProDave]

Cross Laminated Timber.

[Kelvin]

42 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

Bear in mind that the property will be more expensive to insure and difficult to mortgage an sell on.

Why is that? Because it’s less common? 
 

Heb Homes used to offer it alongside SIP and their space frame system. Made in Austria. Was quite a bit dearer. I noticed they’ve removed it from their website. 

[RookieInBristol]

46 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

difficult to mortgage

Don’t believe this is an issue. CLT is just a version of timber framed construction, which is v common. According to Legal and General: major mortgage lenders are happy to lend on CLT-manufactured homes

 

50 minutes ago, ProDave said:

complete inflexibility to make ANY changes to the wiring

Yes, this is a flaw of CLT. We’re aiming to run cables through the roof and down into the internal stud walls. This will allow us to leave much of the CLT exposed on the interior. It’s definitely an added challenge with this method though.

[Kelvin]

Is it inherently airtight? 

[RookieInBristol]

2 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

Is it inherently airtight? 

Yes

[Kelvin]

4 minutes ago, RookieInBristol said:

Yes

What’s your target? 

[TonyT]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

Cross Laminated Timber.

 

I’ve only come across gluelam for ceiling joists, architectural curved designs..

appreciate the info

[Mr Punter]

I am interested to know how you get on with this.  CLT and insulated panels are more often used in larger commercial and community buildings.  Please let us know how you progress with this and best of luck.

[Kelvin]

39 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

I am interested to know how you get on with this.  CLT and insulated panels are more often used in larger commercial and community buildings.  Please let us know how you progress with this and best of luck.

 

Yes me too just because we seriously considered it before ruling it out. We ruled it out much for the reasons @ProDave cited. 

[RookieInBristol]

55 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

we seriously considered it before ruling it out

Kelvin, did you get any idea of cost for CLT? It seems a little above SIPS, but I’ve been unable to get a decent understanding online.

[Kelvin]

17 minutes ago, RookieInBristol said:

Kelvin, did you get any idea of cost for CLT? It seems a little above SIPS, but I’ve been unable to get a decent understanding online.

Only the Heb Homes timber kit prices. It was 15% dearer than their SIP kits when we first started looking two years ago. Then they removed the CLT price and said you had to contact them for a price and they reckoned it was getting on for 25% dearer then they removed it altogether. 
 

Their SFS kits used to be cheaper than their SIP kits. They now aren’t and having built one of their SFS kits I can see why. There’s loads more timber and labour in them. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Kelvin

[saveasteading]

I've never used or considered clt. I can see that it might work for speed on site where that is critical and there are no huge spaces.

When the clt sales pitch is entirely about sustainability I immediately assume it is expensive. I will remain dubious about its carbon footprint until proven otherwise.

3 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

more often used in larger commercial and community buildings

..which is my field of expertise. I'd hazard it is the latest trend, promoted by architects, until the next one comes along, and is  not pitched against other construction methods.

 

I'd say don't design for clt unless costs are readily available from the outset.

[Kelvin]

If you are going for the complete scandi look then I can see the appeal but you can achieve that with well fitted ply. 

[Conor]

One thing to bear in mind about "faster construction time", is that you'll likely have several months of design time, looking for specialists etc etc. In which time you'd have built a standard timber framed house.

[saveasteading]

7 minutes ago, Conor said:

which time you'd have built a standard timber framed house.

And been able to adapt where therd are duscrepancies.

 

I'm thinking of sensitive sites i suppose. Eg if you have to close the road for crane access, make it quick.

 

It is a common fallacy that macdonalds are quick projects.  As Conor says, the time is spent elsewhere.

[RookieInBristol]

4 hours ago, Conor said:

several months of design time

Thanks for this. My architect is keen on CLT and I’ll be speaking with a couple of suppliers in the following few weeks to check out timelines.

Cost remains the key concern for me here. It’s frustrating that design/supply firms invariably require technical drawings in order to draw up a full/detailed quote (which takes weeks) rather than giving a ballpark m2 cost earlier on in the process. So I’m trying to source indicative costs on the www.

[RookieInBristol]

6 hours ago, Kelvin said:

they reckoned it was getting on for 25% dearer then they removed it altogether. 

This is helpful, appreciated. Yes I understand HH removed CLT due to rising timber costs.

[FuerteStu]

I've just built a loft conversion using Posi-joists (steel web joists) and would recommend in terms of structural build. 

 

I know there are benefits of CLT but do those benefits outweigh other construction methods to achieve the same results? 

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, RookieInBristol said:

My architect is keen on CLT

Please ask, then tell us, why they are so keen. Also ask the architect for a cost indication and comparison. If they don't know then beware  as they are playing with your money.

[Dave Jones]

On 02/09/2023 at 08:15, RookieInBristol said:

Morning e’ryone

Looking into CLT for our superstructure, love the interior aesthetics, and the speed of construction is a huge benefit also.

Finding indicative cost information for CLT is very difficult. Can anyone give me a steer on price per m2? 
Also, anyone with experience using CLT, did you find that trades were reticent to work with the system? Did you use a single firm to design, supply and install?

 

We’re exploring using Kingspan quadcore insulated steel panels, battoned to the exterior envelope to reduce overall cost while giving an agricultural look and v impressive u values.

 

thanks!

Josh

 

interesting obscure and expensive build choice with very very few contractors certified im guessing.

 

Why?

[RookieInBristol]

For those interested, I had an indicative costing from a supply and install firm today quoting approximately £220/m2 (surface area) for CLT.

 

Given our fairly simple structure, we shouldn’t need a steel portal frame, though large openings (big glazed areas and sliding patio doors) will need steel lintels.

 

If we can achieve a price like the above, this could be very viable. Off to get a couple more indicative prices.