Advice on how to proceed with planning officer

[Stevie77]

Hello everyone,

 

New here and would appreciate some advice on how to proceed with the planning officer from hell.

 

We've managed to be allocated the greenest, most inexperienced planning officer that probably works at our LPA. This is his first job, he only graduated last summer. Our architect and we are finding it incredibly difficult to deal with him due to his unwillingness to speak to us. This guy is being uncommunicative, does not reply to communication (emails, telephone calls from our architect) and when he does, he does not reply to the points raised.

 

We've submitted an application for a very straightforward application, the same as most properties in surrounding roads and further in our borough, to build on top of our ground floor extension. Our Council's Supplementary Planning Document states a certain limitation on projections at the rear and our proposal exceeds it by c. 80cm BUT there are numerous examples of identical properties in our neighbouring streets (including next-door who received permission to build the same in Oct 2021 🤯) that were granted permission to do exactly the same within the latest iteration of the SPD. It is evident that the way the Council is, and has been, applying its own rules and guidance is highly subjective, inconsistent and well, unfair.  

 

Anyway, this guy has made a very blunt suggestion that negatively impacts the internal space and does not provide a satisfactory living environment and functional space, and is therefore not good design practice. We have taken his objections on board and have sent back a few alternative options that comply with the SPD to the letter but in his latest email, he basically says, we either accept his idea or we take it to appeal. 

 

Even our architect is stumped - working in the same area, he has never come across a planning officer conducting themselves in such manner, and usually, they are able to have a good relationship with open communication lines and reach compromises.

 

So what do we do? If we go with his suggestion we get something that does not work. If we resubmit we will most likely get this guy again, and he has clearly already made up his mind. If we push our original design he will recommend it for refusal. If we go to appeal it is likely to take months with no guarantee that a decision will go our way. We don't even know yet if there is a basis to appeal based on the LPA applying its own rules inconsistently.

[Temp]

11 minutes ago, Stevie77 said:

there are numerous examples of identical properties in our neighbouring streets (including next-door who received permission to build the same in Oct 2021 🤯) that were granted permission to do exactly the same within the latest iteration of the SPD

 

I think I would get a planning consultant involved. Ask them to review your application, see what they say.  Sounds to me like you have good chance of getting PP on appeal.

 

We spent a year in pre app advice stage getting nowhere. Planning Consultant was very helpful. Quite often they used to work for the planning department and get taken seriously. Sometimes you just have to file your application and take it to appeal if rejected.

[Stevie77]

@Temp Yes, I've spoken to someone and have asked for a fee proposal. They have advised that at this stage, their supporting report would not add much as our LPA does not like to change its mind once they have settled on an opinion.

[Papillon]

 I’d ask to speak to their supervisor but not in a confrontational way, just for a second opinion. 
 

I don’t think going to appeal is a bad route, I’ve seen plenty successful appeals. 

[Marvin]

I understand that if an appeal is upheld because of a frivolous point from the planning department the council can be fined by the government. I think its about £10,000 a pop. Ask a planning consultant about it.

[Stevie77]

@Papillon Our architect is on it. With a bit of detective work, we've identified his line manager and our architect emailed them earlier.

 

The amount of work and mental space and energy this guy has taken from us and our architect is incredible. We have evidence of allowed planning for our original submission, as well as our compromise that he has rejected. Although I'm not sure what our grounds for appeal could be, we have given so much evidence to show that our original plan and proposed compromise have been approved before by our LPA, and it seems like this guy is not even looking at any of the evidence. It feels like he’s taken a personal stance on this when he is supposed to be objective. 

[Papillon]

Have you put together a drawing showing the other examples that show you’re in line with others? 
 

 

[saveasteading]

Ig sounds as if your officer is simply out of their depth  and doesn't understand the role. There is a shortage, but that shouldn't be your problem.

Sometimes a junior officer can be reluctant to back down, where an experienced one is pragmatic.

Contacting the supervisor for a quiet word is correct.

 

I'd also contact your Councillor. Officers have to respond to them. Its wierd that an elected Councillor with no planning  skills can do this, but it works.

 

The council doesn't want appeals, hence a firm approach by your team can make it clear you've got good grounds so accept now. A planning consultant can help as they know the precedents.

 

I'm assuming your submission actually is reasonable. Again a planning consultant will have an unbiased view.

[Johnnyt]

Have a butchers at this

 

https://www.pbctoday.co.uk/news/planning-construction-news/the-importance-of-consistency-in-planning-decisions/37423/

[joe90]

I also had a planning officer from hell, fought us all the way, I went to appeal (easier to do than applying fir PP) and won hands down, the appeal officer even told the planner they were not abiding by their own policies. From what I know the planners can only be fined if they have broken the rules and decisions are classed as “opinions” so very difficult to get re imbursed. I did my own appeal and found the Secretary of State office very helpfull.

[DevilDamo]

Did you initially seek Pre-application advice?

[Stevie77]

@DevilDamo No because we're proposing to build a bog standard brick box on top of the existing brick box, which has been done ad infinitum in our area. Our Council pre-app web page even discourages people from using that function!

[DevilDamo]

The reason I asked is because discussions during the formal determination process now appear to only happen if the applicant or agent have initially sought pre-app advice. It’s part of the NPPF.

 

Each application is determined on its own merits, etc…

[Stevie77]

It doesn't look like our LPA is following any guidelines, including their own, particularly closely. It all seems to come down to the whim of the specific planning officer.

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, Stevie77 said:

the whim of the specific planning officer.

I find they don't have a lot of whims, and are necessarily bureaucratic and thick skinned. And not technically minded.

Their interpretation of the local policy may vary though.

Hence find policy and precedent and you are nearly there.

[kandgmitchell]

I had a similar experience a few years ago. We had a small cottage standing in a large plot in rural Norfolk with no immediate neighbours. We submitted a planning application for a large two storey extension on the side. Back came the request to step the front wall back 500mm and reduce the width to reduce impact (?). Upon querying this we got back "this is our standard advice for two story side extensions" . Well on one of their urban estates perhaps but in the middle of no-where? I had to quietly find out the team leader's details and discuss it with her without actually complaining about the case officer. The scheme was approved as submitted. 

 

It can be done, although I have to say the current state of planning departments is the source of a lot of this nonsense now.

[Dave Jones]

On 26/07/2023 at 16:04, Stevie77 said:

Hello everyone,

 

New here and would appreciate some advice on how to proceed with the planning officer from hell.

 

We've managed to be allocated the greenest, most inexperienced planning officer that probably works at our LPA. This is his first job, he only graduated last summer. Our architect and we are finding it incredibly difficult to deal with him due to his unwillingness to speak to us. This guy is being uncommunicative, does not reply to communication (emails, telephone calls from our architect) and when he does, he does not reply to the points raised.

 

We've submitted an application for a very straightforward application, the same as most properties in surrounding roads and further in our borough, to build on top of our ground floor extension. Our Council's Supplementary Planning Document states a certain limitation on projections at the rear and our proposal exceeds it by c. 80cm BUT there are numerous examples of identical properties in our neighbouring streets (including next-door who received permission to build the same in Oct 2021 🤯) that were granted permission to do exactly the same within the latest iteration of the SPD. It is evident that the way the Council is, and has been, applying its own rules and guidance is highly subjective, inconsistent and well, unfair.  

 

Anyway, this guy has made a very blunt suggestion that negatively impacts the internal space and does not provide a satisfactory living environment and functional space, and is therefore not good design practice. We have taken his objections on board and have sent back a few alternative options that comply with the SPD to the letter but in his latest email, he basically says, we either accept his idea or we take it to appeal. 

 

Even our architect is stumped - working in the same area, he has never come across a planning officer conducting themselves in such manner, and usually, they are able to have a good relationship with open communication lines and reach compromises.

 

So what do we do? If we go with his suggestion we get something that does not work. If we resubmit we will most likely get this guy again, and he has clearly already made up his mind. If we push our original design he will recommend it for refusal. If we go to appeal it is likely to take months with no guarantee that a decision will go our way. We don't even know yet if there is a basis to appeal based on the LPA applying its own rules inconsistently.

 

find your local councillor and use him. letter of complaint to head of planning, council chief exec.

[joe90]

On 02/08/2023 at 15:16, Stevie77 said:

It doesn't look like our LPA is following any guidelines, including their own, particularly closely. It all seems to come down to the whim of the specific planning officer.

Proved in my case by the appeal who,s officer said the planner was not abiding by their own policies

On 28/07/2023 at 22:17, DevilDamo said:

discussions during the formal determination process now appear to only happen if the applicant or agent have initially sought pre-app advice. It’s part of the NPPF.

Our initial pre planning advise was “yes no problem” but the application was refused  four times.

48 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

find your local councillor and use him.

We did this as well, in person he was very reasonable and sided with us but when it came to a hearing he voted against us (we were told on the grapevine that everyone was told by the chairwoman to vote against us).

Edited September 7, 2023 by joe90

[Pocster]

Record all meetings ( I used spy pen ) . You have a bad planning officer . I had lots of them . You need to formulate an approach that gets them removed so you get a new officer .

Don’t take ultimatums ( accept this or go to appeal ) - that’s not how it is meant to work . A planning consult would help but at a cost …

[ToughButterCup]

On 02/08/2023 at 15:16, Stevie77 said:

It doesn't look like our LPA is following any guidelines, including their own, particularly closely. It all seems to come down to the whim of the specific planning officer.

 

If you are sure of that ( whim )  - and in the light of all the other relevant advice above - then on Refusal,  Appeal.

If your judgement is correct, you appear at first sight to be the subject of Passive Aggression at least, but I'd call it institutional bullying.

 

The key issue is this: has the Planner given an evidence-based reason for the decision and feedback given so far. Has any reference been made to other instances of refusal or acceptance in nearby buildings? ( in other words - "I'd like you to do it like this because...."

 

If not, then call his bluff. On refusal , Appeal.

If so, then  think very hard about how far to push: you have already shown a willingness to adapt your ideas. 

[DevilDamo]

On 07/09/2023 at 13:22, joe90 said:

Our initial pre planning advise was “yes no problem” but the application was refused  four times.

Which is why advice provided during pre-app is caveated that it’s the informal opinion of the officer and does not represent the decision of the Council. I’ve never liked it. 

[Jilly]

Planning can be unbelievably slow and tortuous. Just accept nothing can be rushed and keep going.