Size of patio dilemma

[canalsiderenovation]

I'm having a bit of a wobble about our patio and the sizing. Need some opinions please.

 

The length isn't an issue as it spans the length of the sliding doors of the kitchen/dining and bedroom/ensuite/office. It's the width I'm having issue with and I don't know if it's just because the footings are dug and it looks smaller! From the doors to the start of the footings is 3.3m. I think originally we had it down as 4ish metres of patio plus the planter but I think the builder took it as 4ish metres WITH the planters and I can't make up my mind if it's too small. 

 

From the kitchen looking out;

 

Side view

 

 

It isn't our only seating area as we will have a path going to this other bit which will have a gazebo and extra seating which will be around 14ftx16ft (it's our old septic tank now not in use). This area is more of a sun trap and is nice to directly look out onto the canal facing forward rather the patio in front of the sliders looks down the garden to the canal on the side rather than front on.

 

 

 

With the price of porcelain we don't want to have more patio for the sake of it but at the same time it needs to be practical and obviously we have the length so wouldn't just have seating just where the sliding door is (the other side is our guest bedroom/ensuite which will also be an Airbnb room).

Edited June 6, 2023 by canalsiderenovation
Extra info

[joe90]

I think it all depends on what you want to use the space for, your table and chairs appear to fit nicely! And you have the other area to use as well. Too big can look out of place (and costly).

[canalsiderenovation]

1 minute ago, joe90 said:

I think it all depends on what you want to use the space for, your table and chairs appear to fit nicely! And you have the other area to use as well. Too big can look out of place (and costly).

 

The other half is playing around with furniture. Yes as we have the other space which will have the gazebo and space around it I don't want it to look too heavy on the porcelain and a path will connect both areas and with the rendered planters it may be ok. I think I'm just struggling to visualise it.

[joe90]

9 minutes ago, canalsiderenovation said:

I think I'm just struggling to visualise it.

A common problem that I found with customers when I was working, luckily I can visualise stuff like a 3d image in my head 🤯.

[canalsiderenovation]

1 minute ago, joe90 said:

A common problem that I found with customers when I was working, luckily I can visualise stuff like a 3d image in my head 🤯.

 

Arghh I need to be like that!

[Big Jimbo]

On another note, your house and setting looks fantastic.

[Redoctober]

45 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said:

On another note, your house and setting looks fantastic.

 

Yes I concur.

[canalsiderenovation]

1 hour ago, Big Jimbo said:

On another note, your house and setting looks fantastic.

Thank you. We are getting there now! We are on the Llangollen canal. If you're on Instagram our_canal_home

 

 

[Bonner]

IMHO it looks a bit tight. Think circulation space around your table, do people need to squeeze past the window or planter side when those chairs are occupied? I would add another 1m to the width.

[canalsiderenovation]

14 minutes ago, Bonner said:

IMHO it looks a bit tight. Think circulation space around your table, do people need to squeeze past the window or planter side when those chairs are occupied? I would add another 1m to the width.

 

We tested it and could get around OK but that's what I was thinking too. Hmm, decisions. 

[crispy_wafer]

10 hours ago, Big Jimbo said:

On another note, your house and setting looks fantastic.

 Was just going to say that, look's lovely.  Bet the chook's love the freshly dug soil!

 

In terms of patio, I'm going with about the same at the back of ours, so 3 - 3.5 * 13m and down the side where the evening sun hits, will be 5*10m.

[canalsiderenovation]

17 minutes ago, crispy_wafer said:

Was just going to say that, look's lovely.  Bet the chook's love the freshly dug soil!

 

In terms of patio, I'm going with about the same at the back of ours, so 3 - 3.5 * 13m and down the side where the evening sun hits, will be 5*10m.

 

The chooks love it, and the builders gave them lots of treats too. 

 

The patio outside the sliders is partly north facing so we don't get sun until afternoon. Your size of 3.5*13 is very similar to us. I think I may speak to the builder this morning. My main concern is if it looks proportionate to the house and too small. I think I'd be happer with an extra 1 metre max.

 

The old septic tank area is in the sun all day (it faces the side of our boat so it's a nice area to sit and watch the boats go past). At 14ft*16ft that is quite a bit of space.

 

@crispy_wafer 5m X 10m as an additional patio? That sounds huge!

[Dave Jones]

looks great!

 

can allways add more patio in the future if you find more space needed. I got the mrs to size ours, set out table/chairs sofas etc and just made sure plenty of room to manovre all round them.

[canalsiderenovation]

2 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

looks great!

 

can allways add more patio in the future if you find more space needed. I got the mrs to size ours, set out table/chairs sofas etc and just made sure plenty of room to manovre all round them.

 

That's exactly what the wife was doing yesterday! She keeps reminding me that it isn't just the width of 3.3m but we have the length too, plus an additional patio with a path leading to it as well. That's without anything else - it's just making sure the proportions are right.

[Marvin]

Hi @canalsiderenovation

 

IMHO the patio size will be too narrow to have people comfortably around the table.

 

I personally don't like the thought of a chair backing on to a window! .Would you design this inside - to have a chair backing on to a full height window? Even your soft sofa chair in the picture is further away.

 

You could extend only the patio area for the table as a compremise?

 

Good luck

 

M

[patp]

Following this as our landscapers start on August 21st (so excited!). 

 

Could the edge of the patio be made very smooth so that you could overspill with chairs/sofas etc if necessary. In other words have the lawn meet the patio rather than a flower border? You could always dig a border if the space turned out to be adequate in the end.

Edited June 7, 2023 by patp
clarity.

[canalsiderenovation]

Decision made - when the builders get here we are going to ask them to extend it by 1metre width and hope this will be doable. That should give us enough space to comfortably walk around the table. I think that extra metre will make all the difference and look more proportional. In fairness this is what we had marked initially (around 4.3m plus the planter not including the planters)!

[canalsiderenovation]

2 minutes ago, patp said:

Following this as our landscapers start on August 21st (so excited!). 

 

Could the edge of the patio be made very smooth so that you could overspill with chairs/sofas etc if necessary. In other words have the lawn meet the patio rather than a flower border? You could always dig a border if the space turned out to be adequate in the end.

 

There is no border anyway as there will be rendered planter walls and then lawn. 

 

Good luck with the landscaping, I'll update on a blog post as we progress.

 

At least my dad didn't come up with any motorway barrier plans for this - if you know you know 😁

[canalsiderenovation]

57 minutes ago, canalsiderenovation said:

Decision made - when the builders get here we are going to ask them to extend it by 1metre width and hope this will be doable. That should give us enough space to comfortably walk around the table. I think that extra metre will make all the difference and look more proportional. In fairness this is what we had marked initially (around 4.3m plus the planter not including the planters)!

 

Argh the concrete is due today and en route, mesh all being done now 😕 but actually the width is slightly more than 3.3m at 3.6m as the porcelain will be slightly overhanging than the soil end. It's not a metre more but it's almost a chair width more. I'm hoping it will be ok. We are going to make the other patio area slightly larger than originally planned so there is additional options here - the gazebo and extra space for table chairs at the side.

Edited June 7, 2023 by canalsiderenovation

[Conor]

25 minutes ago, canalsiderenovation said:

 

Argh the concrete is due today and en route, mesh all being done now 😕 but actually the width is slightly more than 3.3m at 3.6m as the porcelain will be slightly overhanging than the soil end. It's not a metre more but it's almost a chair width more. I'm hoping it will be ok. We are going to make the other patio area slightly larger than originally planned so there is additional options here - the gazebo and extra space for table chairs at the side.

When we were designing our house we were faffing around with room and spaces sizes. Our architect gave us som basic guidence for min spaces for different uses, we followed them and it's worked out brilliantly. The min comfortable width of a dining / socialising space with enough for circulation is 3.2m (1m table, 0.6 each side for chairs, 1m for circulation). You've got it bang on.

[canalsiderenovation]

1 minute ago, Conor said:

When we were designing our house we were faffing around with room and spaces sizes. Our architect gave us som basic guidence for min spaces for different uses, we followed them and it's worked out brilliantly. The min comfortable width of a dining / socialising space with enough for circulation is 3.2m (1m table, 0.6 each side for chairs, 1m for circulation). You've got it bang on.

 

Thanks for that, it's helpful. We were playing with table sizes and looking at our dining table. As we have the other patio area too I think I need to relax a little!

[S2D2]

Thinking about this also and I've come across a few paver sets that are designed to be laid 3.6m deep, so I think that will be a good size. How tall will the planter walls be?

[crispy_wafer]

4 hours ago, canalsiderenovation said:

@crispy_wafer 5m X 10m as an additional patio? That sounds huge!

 

Yes, it's come about not through design but by accident really.  The house is about 450-500 above the surrounding ground level, so I'm building the area up around it.  The back at 3.5*13 was always going to be because it's where the back doors are, but is north westish facing so shadows and no sun in the evening.  Was sat in the garden late evening last week with the bbq on and the sun beating down on the side of the house thinking might be nice to have a seating area there.  We got to 5m because I've got some pipework and an inspection chamber on the way to the soon to be treatment plant and I thought I'd have that with the area as at ground level the pipework didn't have too much cover...  Long way away yet though!

[canalsiderenovation]

24 minutes ago, S2D2 said:

Thinking about this also and I've come across a few paver sets that are designed to be laid 3.6m deep, so I think that will be a good size. How tall will the planter walls be?

TBC yet, but it will only have lavender in it so not massive. This was sort of how we are hoping they will look (not with steps, just an opening). Bricking is starting tomorrow.

 

[canalsiderenovation]

@S2D2 we haven't got the porcelain laid yet but it will be below the blue brick inside and the height will be 50cm from the bottom of the blue brick.  

 

Ground needs building up levelling outside planters and the white render will match the walls yet but here's some pics. 

 

 

 

 

We also sorted our porcelain. All 100m2 of it with 'a bit extra thrown in' for £2200 (we are having another patio area with gazebo). It's like a smooth almost granite like effect.

 

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by canalsiderenovation