Insulhub Isotex Voluntary Liquidation

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, Lisa Maggs said:

so happy to try and give advice.

Take lots of pictures and videos, especially how you got around problems.

Then ask to set up a blog.

[Nickfromwales]

14 hours ago, Oli said:

I've now resigned myself to traditional construction (sigh) but the assurance of JCT terms with monthly valuations.

@Oli I would very much recommend sticking with an ICF, and as I have explained directly to another member, an EPS system will be a night & day upgrade from wood-crete. There are plenty of ICF suppliers who are kosher, so please do not tar all of them with the same brush  

 

I have offered other members some contact details for a very good ICF installer, and he can be further recommended by at least 2 other Buildhub members who's homes he has erected / is in the process of erecting.

 

@All.

 

If this is of interest / help to anyone, please PM me.

[AIMac]

We're caught up in this. Was emailing Jamie & Den in the last 2 weeks to get a detailed BOM to check against what I thought and get delivery dates, now this! Hope to god the manufacturers are able to do the decent thing for 'civilian' self builders.

[AIMac]

On 08/04/2023 at 22:12, nickw said:

So it seems that we have been lied to from the start. Always promised that our payments were sent to Isotex in Italy and our order would be held over there in their yard as they had the space.

Isotex has replied to us today, the same as already previousy posted ...45% discount but also confirming that there is no order for "us" in our name.

 

So Jamie is the Director of Insulhub and is also the Director of Insulhub Contracting which is still active and have submited their accounts recently , insulhub conveniently also sold their vehicles to insulhub Contracting prior to voluntary liquidation for £343k.

As far as I'm concerned Jamie Anderson would have know this was going to be happening well in advance and definately before some people had made their recent payments. If the monies were not paid to Isotex then where has it gone? Is this misappropriation of funds or the like , who knows but as a Ltd company not alot will happen I expect other than the insolvency practitioner will get paid first as always and everyone else will get sweet fk all.

 

From previous experience I worked for a company that entered VL status and as an employee we knew well inadvance this was going to happen and I and others made plans accordingly.

 

Ive attached the pdf recieved from Isotex , response and prices.

 

Isotex Response.pdf 423.38 kB · 27 downloads BLOCKS ON DEMAND SEPTEMBER 2022.pdf 581.77 kB · 18 downloads STANDARD BLOCKS SEPTEMBER 2022.pdf 581.3 kB · 13 downloads

If they sold or transferred these assets within the last 6 months the liquidator should be taking legal steps to have those transactions reversed.

[Nickfromwales]

15 minutes ago, AIMac said:

If they sold or transferred these assets within the last 6 months the liquidator should be taking legal steps to have those transactions reversed.

Do you know if this is a standard, legal practice? 
I would be very interested to see how they could demonstrate functioning admirably / in line with their responsibilities as a limited company with what has been written here, alone.

It could stem much further afield too, and there may be many others who don’t know the scale / volume of ‘damage’ done.

Will come out in the wash I suppose, but I also suppose that the company director(s) would have taken “professional” advice for repercussive mitigation.  

[AIMac]

10 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Do you know if this is a standard, legal practice? 
I would be very interested to see how they could demonstrate functioning admirably / in line with their responsibilities as a limited company with what has been written here, alone.

It could stem much further afield too, and there may be many others who don’t know the scale / volume of ‘damage’ done.

Will come out in the wash I suppose, but I also suppose that the company director(s) would have taken “professional” advice for repercussive mitigation.  

'Standard legal practice' is not strictly relevant as it is the liquidator who is responsible for instructing legal actions irrespective of (1) what the law says and (2) may be best for their creditors. The liquidators' motivations, shall I suggest, can vary! For example, unless the liquidator can get a solicitor to operate on a 'no win, no fee', why would they risk running out of cash to pay themselves and take on that risk of non-recovery (personal/commercial insolvency) from the legal target? Insolvency practitioners, in some scenarios can become personally liable.

 

I was slightly wrong, not a legal professional so needless to qualify this is not legal advice, but...

 

"Transactions at undervalue (s238) – A transaction at the time when the company is insolvent, or by which the company becomes insolvent, in which the company receives less than full value. This has a 2 year look back period for connected and unconnected persons. Additionally, there is an important presumption of insolvency at the time of the transaction where the beneficiary is a connected person."

 

There are other conditions under which reversal of transactions can be sought via the courts on the instruction's of the liquidators' legal agent.

 

Time limits in antecedent transactions, a forgotten past? (jmw.co.uk)

[Kelvin]

It’s the ‘theft’ side of the behaviour that’s the worst especially if there’s no consequence. It’s bad enough to take money and promise delivery several months ago as they might still believe they can trade their way out of it. But to take money literally days before going insolvent is theft. The money has gone somewhere other than its intended purpose. 

[saveasteading]

Be careful everyone, as these are serious accusations. 

For example it might have been prudent to sell the vehicles internally, to release cash for operational purchases.

Also there is probably no "right" time to appoint an administrator. If every company struggling for orders was to refuse new business in case it all went wrong, then that would be the end of most.

 

I'm not supporting anybody here as I don't know.

Just saying to try to make points general rather than specific and avoid accusations.

[Pete Coleman]

It is essential we all register our interests with the liquidator.

Attend all creditor meetings and in my opinion if there is a legal case to pursue then we should be able to establish from the information we receive at these meetings.

From there we could form a collective to pay for a solicitor minimise our individual legal costs.

 

[nickw]

Update from our experience so far...

Paid in 2 parts , 1st Direct from Bank 2nd Credit Card.

Credit card has already instigated a chargeback , takes 45 days for them to get a reply from the company ( good luck with that)

Credit card company has also opened a section 75 claim , this is unknown at the moment and will be for some time I believe.

 

We will be using the isotex blocks still ( hopefully) subject to taking a financial hit and getting everything organised direct with Isotex. We have asked them some more questions and are awaiting a response.

 

Wont be anything from InsulHub as they owe so much money Most of it in Tax it appears.

38k corp tax, 42k paye and another large tax one aswell.

12 staff , insulhub owes insulhub contracting 68k , Jamie had a directors loan of 67k.

So all in all easiest thing for him to do was VL walk away but protect his assets by selling them to insulhub contracting.

 

All of the tax stuff is in the public domain. 

 

Andy is on LinkedIn and may respond but with limited info.

 

Getting onto the Insolvency practitioner , well that's interesting , we have emailed but no response, I have called them today and all I get is put on hold listening to "Wilson field pride themselves on high customer service and professionalism, we know your waiting " and then proceed to cut me off after 6 mins of being on hold ....8 times so far. So at the moment I cannot agree with their "hold message" cos I dont really count being cut off 8 times very professional or good customer service. 

 

I doubt very much anything will happen other than a fairly standard insolvency case.

It just another one of 1000s that happen and sadly people like us walk away F****** over and others walk away with no comeback in reality , free to operate via other limited companies.

 

[nickw]

14 minutes ago, Pete Coleman said:

It is essential we all register our interests with the liquidator.

Attend all creditor meetings and in my opinion if there is a legal case to pursue then we should be able to establish from the information we receive at these meetings.

From there we could form a collective to pay for a solicitor minimise our individual legal costs.

 

Have emailed , no response yet as now have tried 10 times to even get them to answer their phone ....nope just cut off , sent them 2 messages, have asked for a call back , live chat does't come up ...gets better and better.

Edited April 12, 2023 by nickw
spelling

[Kelvin]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Be careful everyone, as these are serious accusations. 

For example it might have been prudent to sell the vehicles internally, to release cash for operational purchases.

Also there is probably no "right" time to appoint an administrator. If every company struggling for orders was to refuse new business in case it all went wrong, then that would be the end of most.

 

I'm not supporting anybody here as I don't know.

Just saying to try to make points general rather than specific and avoid accusations.

You’re being overly generous imo. This Jamie character was happily taking money from people days before the administrator was appointed. He would have known for some time the business was not a going concern. I get that business owners can be the last people to admit defeat long after the business has technically failed. 

[Kelvin]

11 minutes ago, nickw said:

Have emailed , no response yet as now have tried 10 times to even get them to answer their phone ....nope just cut off , sent them 2 messages, have asked for a call back , live chat does't come up ...gets better and better.

An old friend is an administrator dealing with insolvency cases. When a new insolvency is announced they regularly would put the phones into a holding pattern as they’d get inundated with calls for obvious reasons. However they would set a website page up and update this frequently before contacting everyone involved. 

[nickw]

14 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

An old friend is an administrator dealing with insolvency cases. When a new insolvency is announced they regularly would put the phones into a holding pattern as they’d get inundated with calls for obvious reasons. However they would set a website page up and update this frequently before contacting everyone involved. 

Lmao , they called me back when they thought it was "new business" , soon as they found out the reality the  response was "i'll get Daniel to call you " plus the "we've had some problems with the phones"  yeah yeah course you have. 

[Kelvin]

32 minutes ago, nickw said:

Lmao , they called me back when they thought it was "new business" , soon as they found out the reality the  response was "i'll get Daniel to call you " plus the "we've had some problems with the phones"  yeah yeah course you have. 

Exactly. It’s all a game unfortunately. 

[Ralph]

51 minutes ago, nickw said:

Lmao , they called me back when they thought it was "new business" , soon as they found out the reality the  response was "i'll get Daniel to call you " plus the "we've had some problems with the phones"  yeah yeah course you have. 

Yup, pretty much the same thing happened to me a few years ago. They only actually got back in touch when they were trying to get money out of me. 

[DrewG]

Reading this thread has been a wake up call to me as feel for all those effected. I originally was keen on Durisol doing their course last year and then discovered Isotex which was my chossen route up until begin of Feb. My original contractor had changed numbers..not a good sign and so I decided I'm going to build the ICF myself and thus have decided to go Nudura who have a proven system with 8 foot by 18 inches high blocks so quick building times. Going to be placing orders next month...a long as can at least pay deposit with credit card after having reading others misfortune on here.

[CarbonGiraffe]

So it looks like I'm not alone in this situation.. Back in 2017 I completed a new build using Jamie and Durisol.

 

Up until roughly 2021/22 I had was not doing builds instead renovations, but 21/22 my in-laws had decided to have an extension which I was managing, I then got in contact with Jamie and now InsulHub where long discussions we had and meetings to finally decide to go ahead with IsoTex blocks through InsulHud. I was due delivery December 22 but was told will be early 23. We are now in April and still no blocks with a garden as a building site and footings poured. We met InsulHub at the NEC to be told our blocks will be delivered the following week and after a number of calls and emails to no answer I think find the message on their website...GREAT (polite term)

 

In the last 24hrs I have had talks with IsoTex in italy regarding the situation.

 

I noticed Durisol went under last year but someone bought the company and its now back trading still in wales under the name Durisol and Eco Build Store...

 

I know InsulHub resigned from ICFA Feb 23. With Isotex holding certifications where do we stand if we buy direct?

 

So with the unknown and having to explain to my In-Laws we have a problem houston I am now lost what to do!

[Surfiejim]

15 hours ago, CarbonGiraffe said:

I know InsulHub resigned from ICFA Feb 23. With Isotex holding certifications where do we stand if we buy direct?

This is something I'm struggling to understand. I know of another ICF system company that (unlike isotex) do have a BBA cert but aren't in the ICFA. However up until 23rd Feb Isotex were in the ICFA without a BBA cert.

 

Please check the information below and do your own research and speak with your Lenders and Insurers. This is not meant as advice for you to act on without consulting a professional and I am not a qualified professional in this area (Does that cover me?).

I think the BBA cert allows you to call your ICF house a "Standard Build" and ICFA membership isn't so important but without BBA it's called a "Solid Wall Construction" and needs ICFA. 

However Solid wall without ICFA membership creates issues with the Valuation Panel for the Council  of Mortgage Lenders, your Mortgage lenders and insurers will need to be made aware for consideration. It may not be so easy to borrow on or insure a  'Solid Wall' property.

 

This is my research so far but it's ongoing and could be completely wrong. If anyone has anything to add, it would be very appreciated.

 

 

 

[SB2023]

Hi all - a question... It has been said earlier that insulhub contracting is still trading but insulhub ltd is the one in liquidation.

However, I was invoiced and paid insulhub contracting in march so my money must have gone to that company....or am I missing something?

Anyone else the same?

 

 

[CarbonGiraffe]

3 hours ago, Surfiejim said:

This is something I'm struggling to understand. I know of another ICF system company that (unlike isotex) do have a BBA cert but aren't in the ICFA. However up until 23rd Feb Isotex were in the ICFA without a BBA cert.

 

Please check the information below and do your own research and speak with your Lenders and Insurers. This is not meant as advice for you to act on without consulting a professional and I am not a qualified professional in this area (Does that cover me?).

I think the BBA cert allows you to call your ICF house a "Standard Build" and ICFA membership isn't so important but without BBA it's called a "Solid Wall Construction" and needs ICFA. 

However Solid wall without ICFA membership creates issues with the Valuation Panel for the Council  of Mortgage Lenders, your Mortgage lenders and insurers will need to be made aware for consideration. It may not be so easy to borrow on or insure a  'Solid Wall' property.

 

This is my research so far but it's ongoing and could be completely wrong. If anyone has anything to add, it would be very appreciated.

 

 

 

Yes I agree, I think I know the other company you are referring to? (D..) if so I dealt with them before and had no issues! 
 

with Isotex certifications with European does anyone know it that stands as standard build or not?

 

I may give BBA a call to see what their stance is

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, SB2023 said:

Hi all - a question... It has been said earlier that insulhub contracting is still trading but insulhub ltd is the one in liquidation.

However, I was invoiced and paid insulhub contracting in march so my money must have gone to that company....or am I missing something?

Anyone else the same?

 

 

Have you been able to make contact with Insulhub Contracting and confirm the situation? What happens when you ring the phone number(s)?

[SB2023]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

Have you been able to make contact with Insulhub Contracting and confirm the situation? What happens when you ring the phone number(s)?

My job for Monday!

[nickw]

Has anyone got anywhere with their bank and claiming money back, or is it the case if paid direct from bank it's def lost?

 

Another question ...was Insulhub licensed by Isotex?, if so might make a difference, I do think we need to push Isotex in Italy on certain things for sure. I doubt we will get anywhere with how they work there/laws but worth the push to get some clear answers. I realise they have offered 45% discount but would be nice if this was just their opening bid..so to speak.

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, SB2023 said:

My job for Monday!

Is today not a UK business / working day?

I’d be sat outside the trading address before 5:30 today!