Shower, tray, tiles, and all the rest...

[Crofter]

Back to this one again.

Shower tray and screen have now arrived.

Floor is suspended on JJI joists so quite easy to route services between them (a lot easier than digging up a concrete slab anyway!)

The tray has its drain point at the middle of one of the long sides. My instinctive feeling on this is that I should put this edge at the back wall, rather than next to the screen. But it probably doesn't make much difference either way. Or does it?

[Crofter]

Slightly more important question this time! This is the waste that came with the tray. Looks like a 40mm compression fitting on it- I tried a piece of solvent-weld 40mm pipe in it and sure enough it doesn't quite fit.

Would one of these be useful: https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plumbing/d20/Plastic+Solvent+Weld/sd2885/Extendable+Connector+Male+Solvent+Weld/p44138

Or is it a bit of a bodge?

 

[Crofter]

Progress is happening!

Waste is now all connected up, ready to bed down the tray.

Instructions said to use a weak mortar mix, even on a chipboard floor, however I'm inclined to stick the tray down with something a bit stickier and with some flex in it. My suspended floor has a tin bit of bounce and I think mortar would just crack. A mate told me he stuck his trays down using expanding foam, not convinced that's what it's for, or maybe I misunderstood him!

 

It's a big tray- 1500x760- so I don't think I'll be using CT1 for this, it needs to be something a wee bitty cheaper.

 

 

On a different note- I'll need the towel rail soon. Anybody got any scare stories of poor quality stuff out there (paint flaking off etc)? I've seen electric elements that fit inside a conventional wet radiator, other than maybe opening up a wee bit more choice, it sounds like a bit of a faff, I guess I'm better getting a ready-made and pre-filled unit?

 

[joe90]

With ref the waste, mine fitted 40mm solvent pipe ok. I too am looking for electric radiators so will watch this space.

[PeterW]

You can make your own electric towel rail and they aren't that complicated. 

 

Pick any towel rail you like and get a PTC element to suit -eBay is your friend. You also need a second chrome plug as you will need them for each of the ends of the side rails. 

 

Fit the element and a plug in the base then turn the rad the right way up and fit the air bleed plug. Use a funnel and fill the rad with either a low concentration mix of inhibitor and water or silicone oil. You can get silicone oil off eBay - you need to measure the volume of the rad though first. 

 

Fill until you have a 2" gap at the top of the side rail - leave the air bleed undone if its not a rad with a  top rail at the absolute top as otherwise you may get an uneven fill. 

 

Put the cap on and do the vent up and fit it. There is enough expansion to allow for the liquid to expand with a small air space. Don't be tempted to vent it when it's hot as you may create a vacuum and damage the seals on the heating element. 

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, Crofter said:

It's a big tray- 1500x760- so I don't think I'll be using CT1 for this, it needs to be something a wee bitty cheaper.

Possibly THE last place you want to yank the purse strings tight . 

Clean the mould release agent thoroughly from the underside, it's like a greasy layer, and rough it up with some 40 grit sandpaper. 

Prime the ply with 50/50 PVA and water and then set the tray down in rapid set tile adhesive. Put a lot of weight down in the bowl of the tray, not the edges, and tap it gently to get the level right. Lots of light taps NOT a big thump   . 

Allow 24hrs before removing the weight ( cardboard and then buckets of sand / etc )  and it'll be there forever. 

You ok with how to make the trap and pipework up to line up with the tray hole and then you wind the top price in after ?

[joe90]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

You can make your own electric towel rail and they aren't that complicated. 

 

Pick any towel rail you like and get a PTC element to suit -eBay is your friend. You also need a second chrome plug as you will need them for each of the ends of the side rails. 

 

Fit the element and a plug in the base then turn the rad the right way up and fit the air bleed plug. Use a funnel and fill the rad with either a low concentration mix of inhibitor and water or silicone oil. You can get silicone oil off eBay - you need to measure the volume of the rad though first. 

 

Fill until you have a 2" gap at the top of the side rail - leave the air bleed undone if its not a rad with a  top rail at the absolute top as otherwise you may get an uneven fill. 

 

Put the cap on and do the vent up and fit it. There is enough expansion to allow for the liquid to expand with a small air space. Don't be tempted to vent it when it's hot as you may create a vacuum and damage the seals on the heating element. 

Is this cheaper than buying an electric towel radiator ?

[Nickfromwales]

£70 for a 1000x500mm ready to go. 

Is it really worth the ag?

[Crofter]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

Possibly THE last place you want to yank the purse strings tight . 

Clean the mould release agent thoroughly from the underside, it's like a greasy layer, and rough it up with some 40 grit sandpaper. 

Prime the ply with 50/50 PVA and water and then set the tray down in rapid set tile adhesive. Put a lot of weight down in the bowl of the tray, not the edges, and tap it gently to get the level right. Lots of light taps NOT a big thump   . 

Allow 24hrs before removing the weight ( cardboard and then buckets of sand / etc )  and it'll be there forever. 

You ok with how to make the trap and pipework up to line up with the tray hole and then you wind the top price in after ?

 

Well not trying to do this on the cheap, just thought several tubes of CT1 might not be the most cost effective solution!

Would you recommend a powdered adhesive rather than a ready-made tub?

 

Trap and waste pipe is all in place now, with a wee bit of wiggle room. Had umpteen test fits and getting a bit fed up of lifting and lowering that bl**dy tray onto my fingers

Stopped up the pipe downstream and did a test fill, no leaks, so I think I'm good to go.

[Crofter]

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

With ref the waste, mine fitted 40mm solvent pipe ok. I too am looking for electric radiators so will watch this space.

Yes actually mine did too, I just needed to man up and give it a bit more persuasion.

I think the rule is that everything fits compression, push-fit doesn't fit solvent and vice versa. I think. I'm sure the Welshman will correct me on this!

[Crofter]

17 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

£70 for a 1000x500mm ready to go. 

Is it really worth the ag?

 

Possibly, because I can just nip into Toolstation/Screwfix and pick up a radiator, then get an eBay element to go in it, and it should work out cheaper that way.

A radiator off eBay is unlikely to get delivered to me without a lot of hassle (e.g. the link you posted won't deliver here).

[joe90]

https://www.screwfix.com/p/electric-pre-filled-towel-radiator-white-980-x-550mm/3012p

[Crofter]

On 28 September 2017 at 14:27, Nickfromwales said:

Possibly THE last place you want to yank the purse strings tight . 

Clean the mould release agent thoroughly from the underside, it's like a greasy layer, and rough it up with some 40 grit sandpaper. 

Prime the ply with 50/50 PVA and water and then set the tray down in rapid set tile adhesive. Put a lot of weight down in the bowl of the tray, not the edges, and tap it gently to get the level right. Lots of light taps NOT a big thump   . 

Allow 24hrs before removing the weight ( cardboard and then buckets of sand / etc )  and it'll be there forever. 

You ok with how to make the trap and pipework up to line up with the tray hole and then you wind the top price in after ?

 

Oh one more thing... to ply or not to ply?

Plenty of references out there saying I should put 12mm marine ply down prior to bedding the tray. But are they talking about floorboards, which are prone to movement, whereas I have glued/screwed P5 chipboard which isn't going anywhere. I'm only putting vinyl down, not tiles, so don't really fancy raising the tray any higher than necessary. Plus marine ply doesn't grow on trees you know.

[Nickfromwales]

For vinyl you should really put a ply base down to cover the joints in the P5, but for a room this small I doubt you'll need it.

Fill and sand the joints in the P5, to get rid of any noticeable 'notch', and you'll be fine. 

[Crofter]

Shower tray all bedded down and draining nicely.

Need to get a mixer valve asap... Concealed single lever would be prefered. @Nickfromwales how would you rate Bristan?  I know (Hans)Grohe are maybe the ones to go for but I'm a bit concerned that they seem to sell the valve and trim separately and knowing me I'd probably end up with a mismatch.

[Nickfromwales]

41 minutes ago, Crofter said:

Shower tray all bedded down and draining nicely.

Need to get a mixer valve asap... Concealed single lever would be prefered. @Nickfromwales how would you rate Bristan?  I know (Hans)Grohe are maybe the ones to go for but I'm a bit concerned that they seem to sell the valve and trim separately and knowing me I'd probably end up with a mismatch.

Get a thermostatic bar mixer like one of these. 

Looks great, cheap enough to be disposable, 10 year warranty and can be interchanged with any like bar mixer later down the line. 

TBH at that price I'd buy two and have one for spares, claiming on the warranty of the broken one whilst you've still got happy tenants showering under the spare

At any price / any manufacturer you'll still need the emergency one as you've not got a bath as backup. ? 

[joe90]

I got bog standard shower mixer bars because they are repairable, my son bought a posh shower mixer and just after the warranty ran out it leaked and a replacement was £800 and spare parts are not available ?

[Crofter]

2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Get a thermostatic bar mixer like one of these. 

Looks great, cheap enough to be disposable, 10 year warranty and can be interchanged with any like bar mixer later down the line. 

TBH at that price I'd buy two and have one for spares, claiming on the warranty of the broken one whilst you've still got happy tenants showering under the spare

At any price / any manufacturer you'll still need the emergency one as you've not got a bath as backup. ? Tt

 

Thanks- that does make a heck of a lot of sense- alas the style decision dictates remote concealed valve.

 

This seems the best price for a known brand:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bristan-Gummers-Sirrus-Concealed-Thermostatic-Mini-Mixer-Lever-Shower-Valve-/132187948442?epid=2255305956&hash=item1ec704059a:g:510AAOSwCQZZMA5A

 

[Nickfromwales]

Avoid 'sequential' concentric like the plague. There is no speed / flow control just 100% full on at max flow available and then you dial further around to go from cold to hot. You can cap it with a flow restrictor but it's a pita. 

 

 

Quick Ebay grab : Complete kit

 

Ones I just fitted

 

Same makes available in round head. 

Edited October 10, 2017 by Nickfromwales

[Crofter]

Coo, glad I asked now- was thinking of a simple on/off as don't most people just turn it all the way up anyway? No harm I guess in allowing people to use less water if they want!

If you've been fitting unbranded eBay valves without issue, then that's good enough for me. And they're cheap enough to have a spare on hand.

[Barney12]

On 10/10/2017 at 12:47, Nickfromwales said:

Avoid 'sequential' concentric like the plague. There is no speed / flow control just 100% full on at max flow available and then you dial further around to go from cold to hot. You can cap it with a flow restrictor but it's a pita. 

 

 

Quick Ebay grab : Complete kit

 

Ones I just fitted

 

Same makes available in round head. 

 

Hi @Nickfromwales the link of the ones you've just fitted......Do they have a ceramic valve? And more broadly is that an important factor?

 

Im finding the myriad of bathroom fittings somewhat bewildering  The linked product is 4 times cheaper than say the Crosswater equivalent. How and Why!?!?!?!

[Nickfromwales]

Because they can . 

A lot of the mid range sellers just put their stamp on mass produced cheapos and you pay the difference as it goes through another pair of hands that want their pound of flesh. 

Mine has been in for 3 years of constant use and abuse. Tbh I should have bought another for spares as the only unknown is how long you get support with the cheaper / unbranded items. As I can tile and plumb I don't really care, and I kept a load of spare tiles for such an eventuality, but you may want to go up a notch to ensure you have ongoing customer support and spares. 

As to what valve is in there, not a clue, but those have a 10 year guarantee and at that price you can buy one for spares or ask if spare thermostatic and flow valve cartridges are available to buy at the time of purchase. The flow rates are good too and they're WRAS approved whereas others are not. 

[Plumbersmateuk]

Just as a ref.

1. Here's my 2 way shower/bath filler bought of ebay for £40ish, been in  7 years still still working fine

[Declan52]

Do you not really like the concealed type then @Nickfromwales due to the hassle if something goes wrong it's a kango session on a normal block wall.

I have one of each and changing the cartridge on the bar mixer type was piss easy. 

[Nickfromwales]

18 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Do you not really like the concealed type then @Nickfromwales due to the hassle if something goes wrong it's a kango session on a normal block wall.

I have one of each and changing the cartridge on the bar mixer type was piss easy. 

Yup. And also just as easy to swap an obsolete bar mixer for a new replacement. Ideal for rentals or if you don't want to fork out on an expensive concealed valve / can't change one out yourself for little pain / cost. 

I love the concealed stuff, hence my own tapless bath with 3-way wall mounted concealed diverter and overflow filler. ?  

Anyone who wants such looks should spend the extra on a reputable make like Triton, Mira, Vado or above so they know they can fit spares in the future rather than rip out and replace. 

Fwiw, almost all concealed showers are serviced / maintained from the front so you don't need to get to them. The only ones that cause issue are the ones sold for exposed OR concealed which have non return valves and also often inline filters fitted in the hot and cold elbows. They cannot be cleaned or changed without a full rip out, so flushing before connecting is of paramount importance. Manufacturers will check these with any warranty claim and if they can demonstrate such negligence they may charge for the repair. If the shower you choose has inline NRV's then take them out and put compression ones elsewhere in the supply pipework where they can be cleaned or inspected. 

The likes of Hans Grohe can be fully disassembled in situe so you get what you pay for with them, excellent product, easy to maintain, and long-term support and spares availability.