No Structural Warranty (due to COVID!)

[Joanna Susskind]

Hey all,

 

We completed our house build about 6 months ago in Glasgow. We have our Habitation Certificate, we have our SER, we have all the forms, but since we built during lockdown we had no architect site visits as planned. This means we have no structural warranty. Our architect is being very difficult about issuing the certificate and doing the inspections retrospectively. We are on an extremely high interest self build mortgage. Banks won’t lend so we cannot remortgage without the warranty. This was not part of the plan! 
 

Should I keep on at my architect to provide some kind of documentation?

 

Should I go direct to a few lenders and explain the situation?

 

Should I just suck it up and pay the £10k(?!) or so for a warranty after the fact?

 

Would love some advice, thanks.

 

Joanna

[Mr Punter]

Shop around for the warranty.

[Hilldes]

@Joanna SusskindWe just got our structural warranty - 5 months after the building control completion "final certificate". Now off a self build mortgage and saving £700 per month in mortgage interest. This delay was due to the warranty provider technical auditors being a total PITA (warranty provider is Protek). So be careful who you choose if you do need a warranty.

 

In your case, I'm not sure how you get by with just architect inspection and no warranty provider from the start - I guess it may be different in Scotland?

 

Either way, our warranty provider, building control and mortgage lender valuers all continued site visits throughout lockdown. I think you have a case in saying your architect should have continued inspections too.

[nod]

Try Jeremy at CML 

 

[Bozza]

Bit confused here.  The only time an architect wouldn’t have been able to visit a site during pandemic was in first half of 2021 when residential building sites were closed in Scotland.  We were also affected as had to stop our build for a few months I recall.

 

So how did you manage to progress your build through those key stages that required architects inspection,  I can only assume you were living on site in a caravan or whatever and literally doing all the work yourself?  In which case surely you discussed this at the time the architect, what did he/she say?

[Temp]

Did you take lots of photos of the foundations trenches etc Try showing those to him.

 

Then I think I would approach his professional body. See what they say.

 

Have you got anything like a contract with him that says a certificate will be provided? I suppose in the end his refusal might amount to breach of contract unless covered by the small print.

[Joanna Susskind]

10 hours ago, Bozza said:

Bit confused here.  The only time an architect wouldn’t have been able to visit a site during pandemic was in first half of 2021 when residential building sites were closed in Scotland.  We were also affected as had to stop our build for a few months I recall.

 

So how did you manage to progress your build through those key stages that required architects inspection,  I can only assume you were living on site in a caravan or whatever and literally doing all the work yourself?  In which case surely you discussed this at the time the architect, what did he/she say?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are exactly right. We built through the first lockdowns when people literally weren't leaving the house. We did every single thing ourselves. We did live in a caravan - it was burnt to the ground! We had a very hard time. Our architect was not able to travel from Edinburgh to Glasgow to inspect until much later when we were nearly complete. We never planned to sell, and had to push through, so we didn't realise at the time that no architect sign-off would cause us problems. We had Building Control signing off and our building society/valuation people onsite regularly.

 

The architect is not saying much, just that he wasn't formally appointed to do the inspections. We had his site visits scheduled and budgeted in to our build. They just didn't happen... So now he's being very awkward about doing the report retrospectively.

[Joanna Susskind]

14 hours ago, nod said:

Try Jeremy at CML 

 

Thank you! Do you have more information for me to search? When I Googled CML I found a rare type of blood cancer!

[Kelvin]

22 minutes ago, Joanna Susskind said:

Thank you! Do you have more information for me to search? When I Googled CML I found a rare type of blood cancer!

It’s CMLC. Very good price for us. 
 

https://www.cmlcltd.uk

 

What does your contract with the architect say? Did you sign a copy of the RIAS Scottish Conditions of the appointment of an architect form? 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Kelvin

[Joanna Susskind]

7 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

It’s CMLC. Very good price for us. 
 

https://www.cmlcltd.uk

 

What does your contract with the architect say? Did you sign a copy of the RIAS Scottish Conditions of the appointment of an architect form? 

 

Thanks - I'll look in to CMLC!

 

We did sign that form at the outset, but our architect says that we didn't finalise the inspections part of it... Should I go through the form with a fine toothed comb? 

[Kelvin]

Yes, and any other contract you signed and every email you exchanged about it. If you find anything send it to him.
 

But if you find CMLC can offer you a retrospective warranty for a price you feel

is ok I’d probably go with that for speed. You can then follow the RIAS complaint procedure if you think you are in a strong position. 

[nod]

[MR10]

If the main reason for the retrospective warranty is to move away from a self build mortgage to a standard mortgage (or if selling, for a potential buyer to get a mortgage) and CMLC or similar provider are on the lenders' approved list then I don't see what the problem is. 

[Conor]

As I said on the other similar thread, some lenders don't ask for a warranty, so check with a broker before shelling out £ks.

 

[Joanna Susskind]

Thanks, yes, sounds like I need to make some phone calls first. Our broker couldn't find anyone who didn't need the warrant, which is how we ended up here... But if you say Virgin and Bank of Ireland didn't need it, then I ought to get in touch with them myself!

[Kelvin]

I’d contact CMLC and get a quote as at least you’ll know what you’re dealing with cost wise. 

[Ralph]

11 minutes ago, Joanna Susskind said:

Thanks, yes, sounds like I need to make some phone calls first. Our broker couldn't find anyone who didn't need the warrant, which is how we ended up here... But if you say Virgin and Bank of Ireland didn't need it, then I ought to get in touch with them myself!

We're in a similar position to yourself for similar reasons. For us a 10 year Professional Consultants Certificate from Build Warranty was £2,800 whereas a Structural was £7,950, even better if a lender wont want anything at all. We did try a couple of brokers but they were of very little use. I'd be interested to hear if you find a lender that does not require one.

[Joanna Susskind]

Thanks everyone. We now have a quote for £2000 to do a retrospective survey and inspection for a 10 year PCC (which was the Architect's Certificate previously here in Scotland) - The guy can come out this week to inspect and our bank seems happy... Easy?! Wish I had come on here for advice a year ago!!! Thanks for all the help. x

Edited February 28, 2023 by Joanna Susskind

[Ralph]

12 minutes ago, Joanna Susskind said:

Thanks everyone. We now have a quote for £2000 to do a retrospective survey and inspection for a 10 year PCC (which was the Architect's Certificate previously here in Scotland) - The guy can come out this week to inspect and our bank seems happy... Easy?! Wish I had come on here for advice a year ago!!! Thanks for all the help. x

That's not a bad cost, would you mind telling me who is doing the PCC?

[Kelvin]

Good stuff. Big weight off your shoulders. 

[MJamesW]

Its an interesting topic 10 Years PCC's, the reason they are normally limited to 6 years is due to 'run off ' cover on the consultants PI cover. Its a very grey area and one that certainly lenders aren't fully up to speed on. There are providers offering 10 years PCC's as it then makes it a very solid and cheap alternative to a warranty, but they have no way of covering the 10 years. Any Architect or Surveyor will tell you that 6 Years is the maximum PI insurers offer. Its not a regulated policy a PCC and therefore we should all be cautious about what we are getting as there is no recourse once we have paid our money. I would personally ask for confirmation their PI provider is willing to support a 10 year PCC.

 

[Bozza]

That’s a great result.  You’ll get your £2k back in lower monthly payment soon enough.  If I recall HSBC are one of the few lenders who don’t accept PCC.  There’s a list somewhere on the tinternet.

[Joanna Susskind]

9 hours ago, Bozza said:

That’s a great result.  You’ll get your £2k back in lower monthly payment soon enough.  If I recall HSBC are one of the few lenders who don’t accept PCC.  There’s a list somewhere on the tinternet.

Yes indeed. We've already spoken to Halifax who are happy with the PCC we're going to provide. The inspector is coming Friday! Delighted! And sure enough, only 4 months in and we'll have made up the difference... Wish I had looked in to this a year ago!! But hopefully all good now.

 

https://www.pwaarchitects.co.uk/services/retrospective-architects-certificates-inc-retrocert

 

These are the people we're using btw. RIBA Architects. We've done our research - learnt a lot through this house building business!

[AliG]

I assume you weren't paying the architect for any kind of supervision during the build if he won't now provide the certificate? Otherwise, I would be asking for some kind of refund as he can't have his cake and eat it.

 

If he didn't visit and you didn't pay then I guess the retrospective certificate might be cheaper than the architect was anyway, although you would have been able to reduce your mortgage payments sooner.