The UK is wasting a lot of wind power

[SimonD]

Another interesting analysis on the current UK infrastructure supporting RE, its problems and proposing some solutions.

 

https://archy.deberker.com/the-uk-is-wasting-a-lot-of-wind-power/

[SteamyTea]

Yes, nothing really new, but good to see it all in one place.

 

As usual the real problem is in the planning system.

[ProDave]

Lots of wise words in that article.  Particularly trying to encourage more generation down south and more usage up north.

 

It shows the lack of joined up planning lets build renewable generation as fast as we can in Scotland, even if that is faster than we can build the infrastructure to actually enable us to use that new capacity

 

Will we finally see proper variable pricing, where electricity for Scottish customers is actually cheaper than for south England customers?  (at the moment we perversely have the opposite)

[SteamyTea]

11 minutes ago, ProDave said:

shows the lack of joined up planning lets build renewable generation as fast as we can in Scotland, even if that is faster than we can build the infrastructure to actually enable us to use that new capacity

I think that has come about because we have managed to build a lot quicker, and more importantly, cheaper than we imagined a decade ago.

 

11 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Will we finally see proper variable pricing, where electricity for Scottish customers is actually cheaper than for south England customers?  (at the moment we perversely have the opposite)

Probably more to do with the local network, not as is you can plug directly into the a local turbine.

[ProDave]

1 minute ago, SteamyTea said:

Probably more to do with the local network, not as is you can plug directly into the a local turbine.

The immediate bottleneck appears to be the England / Scotland interconnects.  If heavy industry was encouraged by cheaper fuel costs to locate in Scotland rather than England, that would relieve a lot of the pressure on that interconnect.

[AliG]

Very interesting article. Thanks

 

The banning of onshore wind turbines in England was ridiculous and its reversal is well overdue.

 

The siting of turbines where it is cheapest for producers with no benefit or indeed a net detriment to consumers shows once again how often legislation/regulation is poorly designed and then taken advantage of.

[MikeSharp01]

On 29/01/2023 at 10:58, SimonD said:

https://archy.deberker.com/the-uk-is-wasting-a-lot-of-wind-power/

Yes, very interesting read and very well put. NIMBYism is definitely a problem down her, witness the fight the locals in NE Kent put up against the Graveny Solar farm and many other examples. I was somewhat shocked to have the impact of a weak transmission system on the both the cost and carbon spin outs so well demonstrated. As usual the politics of this are at, or very adjacent to, the root of the problem. 

[SteamyTea]

Grant Shapps has been appointed as the new Secretary for Energy Security and Net Zero.

[MikeSharp01]

30 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Grant Shapps has been appointed as the new Secretary for Energy Security and Net Zero.

Let's see how that goes.

[SteamyTea]

6 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Let's see how that goes.

Slowy.

And I am sure that there will be talk of cheap energy for people that live near a windfarm, again, again, again, again......

[ToughButterCup]

Here's further reading  on the nitty gritty of Planning Law as it affects wind turbines by Martin Goodhall. 

[Jenki]

But then you read this🙈 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/dozens-scottish-power-wind-turbines-29135763.amp&ved=2ahUKEwjq16Tb-oX9AhWaScAKHU1aBVcQFnoECBAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1QzYTqiR9Gjqu61EWLjSkE

 

[SteamyTea]

15 minutes ago, Jenki said:

But then you read this

"the Sunday Mail can reveal"

 

The bastion of all things renewable.

[saveasteading]

Looks like tech problems that can be resolved. If the grid won't take the power, then one turbine could rotate the others.

A bit of wiring, and I can't imagine that even the electric companies want to buy diesel.

Politicians and journalists posing   I suspect.

Lots of people want to hear that sustainability measures don't work. 

[AliG]

The long term assumed solution for this problem is hydrogen.

 

At the moment hydrogen is expensive, wasteful and inefficient but the research that I have read forecasts that in 10-20 years cheap excess renewable energy can be used to produce hydrogen which can then be used as a cheaper way of storing or transmitting electricity.

 

In all cases you can just do the maths. What’s cheaper new cables, battery storage, pumped storage, hydrogen etc.

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Lots of people want to hear that sustainability measures don't work. 

Yes, but I don't understand why.

It can't be 'fear of change' as we have, over the last 60 years gone from mainly coal fired, to nuclear, to gas and now to RE.

Most people don't think too hard how it is made, and actually care even less.

 

I am sure that if we had a better pricing system which stopped the cost of electricity being based on the most expensive generation, then we would hear a lot more about how coal and gas cannot work and must be shut down.

10 minutes ago, AliG said:

research that I have read forecasts that in 10-20 years cheap excess renewable energy can be used to produce hydrogen which can then be used as a cheaper way of storing or transmitting electricity.

There is a lot of research, and all the high quality ones say it is only going to be cost effective for aviation and some long haul freight haulage.

 

In reality we have to stop thinking 'how the UK has done it'.

Sub Saharan Africa is already following a decentralised electrification model. Rural India and China will probably do the same. That is at least a third, and maybe a half of the world's population that will drive a new generation model.

 

A decentralised model is more to do with geographically distributed generation with central, or regional control, rather than a backwards model of Pico and Micro generation feeding into a large grid in a willynilly fashion.

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

Sub Saharan Africa

The Sahara is enormous, and very sunny.  Ditto central Australia.

Sun into Hydrogen. Shipped by tanker running on hydrogen. Sorted.

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

I don't understand why.

It can't be 'fear of change'

I think it is fear of fear.

Climate change is very scary, and some people would rather not be scared.

 

I had a friend bring up in the pub that recycling was a con, because he had seen the bins of sorted bottles being tipped into the same lorry.

Smug me told him that there were 3 divisions in the lorry. He wasn't happy.

 

Same pub....'If anyone wants to look out now at the snow and tell me that global warming isn't a hoax, then go on' (The Sun Says, was his source of info).

 

Then on chattery social media people are saying much the same. Mostly not trolls, just very ignorant and happily so.

I think all this links in with the extreme right wing view called libertarianism.

[Temp]

I think even East Anglia has a problem exporting the wind energy it generates.

[SteamyTea]

20 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

I think it is fear of fear.

Climate change is very scary, and some people would rather not be scared.

To most people there is no connection between wind/solar/RE and climate change.

They have to stop and think about it.

The problem may be that we 'engage and empower' the general populous too much.

And as you point out, they are (expletive deleted)ing thick (expletive deleted).

[SteamyTea]

30 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Sun into Hydrogen

And then into ammonia.

Much easier to handle than raw hydrogen.

 

 

[saveasteading]

12 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

'engage and empower' the general populous too much.

As an experiment. the government could allow the cost of energy to double, but have no other energy policies.

 

The public then say the traditional  'something needs to be done about it.'

The conservative press then campaign in support of their paying readership who suddenly 'always knew' and were never deniers.

 

Ammonia: why are we hearing about hydrogen? You have spurred my interest, again.

Ammonia has a higher energy density, at 12.7 MJ/L, than even liquid hydrogen, at 8.5 MJ/L. Liquid hydrogen has to be stored at cryogenic conditions of –253 °C, whereas ammonia can be stored at a much less energy-intensive –33 °C. And ammonia, though hazardous to handle, is much less flammable than hydrogen.

[SteamyTea]

5 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Ammonia: why are we hearing about hydrogen?

Because

25 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

(expletive deleted)ing thick (expletive deleted).

 

More seriously, we know how to make, process and store it in vast quantities.

Been used as fertiliser for decades.

Edited February 8, 2023 by SteamyTea

[ToughButterCup]

14 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

...

They have to stop and think about it.

...

 

Thats yer problem, right there sir.

 

Trying to be fair, I don't have the cranial band-width to think through many of life's bigger problems. Designing, framing and fitting a pantry is more than enough to keep my mental gears whirring all day and part of the night.

 

People like me rely on people like you @SteamyTea.

So, to Infinity And Beyond, on behalf of a good few of us please......

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, ToughButterCup said:

to Infinity And Beyond

To the Tamar, and beyond.