Anyone know what these guys do with rainwater?

[Alan Ambrose]

https://pb-architects.com/

 

?

[ToughButterCup]

No.

But whatever they do, it's likely to be overpriced. 

 

Here's why

 

Quote

If you are interested in discussing a project, or a public appearance role with Patrick Bradley, or using Grillagh Water House for a filming, tv or photoshoot location, please contact the studio via email.

https://pb-architects.com/studio  downloaded. Jan 2023

 

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, Alan Ambrose said:

https://pb-architects.com/

 

?

Care to expand on the question?

 

Not the first time this firm has cropped up recently.

[saveasteading]

These are all impressions aren't they?

Although the first one seems to have some scabby wood cladding so may be real and 'settling in to its rural environment.'

[SteamyTea]

2 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Although the first one seems to have some scabby wood cladding so may be real and 'settling in to its rural environment.'

Not when you look at the tree shadow on the scabby cladding, but the sun behind the building.

 

Like most wet dreams, they soon age.

 

  

[saveasteading]

Bttoq.

Many architects consider that drainage is 'by others'.

When complelled to have internal gutters, i have always got the pipes out of the building asap.

[Jilly]

I like the bovine lawnmower.

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> Care to expand on the question?

 

I mean - "as none of these buildings have conventional gutters and drainpipes, what kind of arrangements for handling rain do they have?"

 

And is it workable?

 

Actually, there's an outbuilding near me that has an arrangement a bit like this. It does looks good.

 

But, does anyone know what the engineering detail looks like?

 

 

[markc]

That’s a hidden gutter and the down pipes will be internal, common arrangement on industrial buildings.

[Russell griffiths]

If you have ever seen an internal downpipe block and then separate at a junction you would soon realise that it’s a stupid idea. 

[saveasteading]

45 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

If you have ever seen an internal downpipe block and then separate at a junction you would soon realise that it’s a stupid idea.

Yes rain is seen as an inconvenience by some. Building internal gutters increases the risk of leaks dramatically, especially when gutters block.

I have never known a client to want to pay extra (a lot extra) for internal gutters. They only want the building to keep the weather out, so keep it out. 

The gutters, downpipes and drains. Secret gutters, sometimes behind  parapets (to conceal that there is a pitched roof) are specified by architects usually,  for appearance only. 

Philistine me, I try to give clients a choice, and there is only one answer once they know the implications.

I think I've done 5 internal gutters, where I did not have enough influence (and the end client was not asked)  so know of what i speak.

 

If you are sold on the appearance, allow for the extra cost, watch the build quality constantly, and clean the gutters at least 4 times a year.

[markc]

Last residential one we did (good few years ago), the gutters and down pipes were not inside the building but hidden behind the cladding. Also asymmetrical gutter profile so the outer edge was much lower than the internal edge plus end over flow tel-tales to highlight blockages.

[Alan Ambrose]

@markc re: That’s a hidden gutter and the down pipes will be internal, common arrangement on industrial buildings.

 

I'm interested why on industrial buildings - presumably some practical advantage?

 

The engineer in me says 'no', but I do like the look - and the picture I posted above suggested they kindof built the building as normal 'and then put the cladding on the outside'. And as the cladding is largely just looking good and keeping most of the rainwater off the vapour barrier, then I guess it will work. I get the point re not getting the gutters blocked, but where I am now, they have never blocked anyway as we don't have any overhanging trees. I guess we're used to soil pipes boxed in on the inside and we're not paranoid about them leaking - we just take care to do the work well.

[markc]

Hi, industrial building by necessity have large roof areas so the gutters need to be proportionately large, hanging them on the outside of the cladding would need big pretty ugly brackets, but portal frame buildings have nice columns to sit the gutters on and the cladding goes on the outside of the columns so it’s more ease and economy than design, plus multiple downpipes reduce the risk of overflowing gutters but it still happens, as does the occasional down pipe blockage and eruption!, but again generally not so catastrophic in a warehouse or factory environment.

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, markc said:

industrial building by necessity have large roof areas so the gutters need to be proportionately large, hanging them on the outside of the cladding would need big pretty ugly brackets

Not so. External gutters can be deep and carry more water. The  biggest span I did was 50m and the gutters and dp were external. If a freak rainstorm, or blockage, overwhelms the capacity, then the water spills harmlessly. 

With an internal gutter it overfills and tries to force through rubber profiles. 

 For that reason, Internals must have greater spare capacity and end up huge.

No, parapets are there for appearance not function. (They also increase snow buildup and need extra support from the structure)..and snow blocks the gutter, so send workers up to clear it ir risk leaks)

Also, seagulls love parapet  walls to build nests.....in or beside the gutter.

 

A leak in a warehouse can, indeed,  be catastrophic financially. There is case law for a blameless QS being liable for water damage and repair (millions) when the other designers and builder went handily out of business.

 

I have done internals. Oversized and additional outlets is the answer, but was still the aspect of the designs that worried me. 

[Russell griffiths]

I think this fad at the moment of sleek roof lines and hidden gutters is asking for trouble in years to come. 

 

I lived in semi tropical Australia for a few years and they are very realistic rather than wanting some arty fatty design. 

Roofs have large overhangs, a lot for shade, but it also sheds the water away from the house, gutters do not cope with the tropical storms so they don’t have them, water flys of the roof and onto the floor. 

 

Water should be encouraged to leave the roof as fast as possible and get to the drain as fast as possible.

There are plenty of posts on here about wanting to not have a certain down pipe in a location because it will spoil the lines of the house. 

Oh FFS get over yourself and get that water off the roof. 

 

When i originally designed my place ace it was going to have hidden gutters, I soon worked out it would be a good few grand more and would be a pig to build, so I scrapped the idea and had deep wide aluminium made up. 

Do I look at the house now and think it looks crap with the gutters, not at all the only person who is going to notice you haven’t got gutters are the ones you point it out to when you are blowing your own trumpet. 

[saveasteading]

When i have had to use valleys or internal gutters, I have worked out the flows and gutter dimensions myself,  and ensured large tapered outlets to maximise flow. This because the theoretical depth doesn't allow for sag in the gutter, or the massive risk if it fails.

 

I discussed this with a supplier expert, and asked what they do in tropical areas.

Of course they avoid internal gutters , but have extra deep ones if necessary. In a portal frame this requires special detailing and deeper purlins,  which can be costly.....but the architect isn't paying of course..

Another issue is splash from one side onto the other.

 

Also always visited site during or after heavy rain as a check in advance of handover, or tried to test it if no rain.

 

But external is best. Control nature, don't try to defeat it.

 

 

[saveasteading]

One other thing re domestic use. Who wants to hear rainwater in pipes boxed into the living room / bedroom?