Alan Ambrose Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 I'm trying to decide the footprint size I want/we need. My natural inclination is to get the max size I can, both for valuation reasons but also because I've spent most of my life living in a city flat feeling short of space. The plot has permission atm for a single storey of 180 m^2 and the planners have indicated that a 1.5 should be OK. So, a 2nd floor / mezzanine should be fine. The ground is firm-ish clay so I'm hoping that a basement should be possible (we've still to do the ground investigation). This is for an active-but-will-be-retired-soon couple with no dependents but a bunch of hobbies. We would like to host visitors comfortably for short stays which we can't at the moment with ample room for storage / workbench / plant room etc. We're lucky enough to have no real budget limitations but would like the build to make approximate economic sense. I read here of some serial self-builders who have built smaller properties after larger ones. How big is too big Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 You can look through all the back posts on here I don’t think you will find any complaining that they have built to big Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozza Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) The vast majority of self builders will have at some time in their lives lived in a home that is too small for their needs. So when we self build we tend to build big, as that makes sense due to the economies of scale. I do however think it is possible to build too big as well as too small. Personally I would find living in a massive house, as a couple, really weird and almost as uncomfortable as a house that’s too small.. Our build 214/216 sqm (I always forget which one is correct) is the biggest house I’ve lived in but I’m not a wealthy person. The house is a decent size for me and wife and 12 year old and we have everything we need and could have even built a bit smaller. We did have the option to build bigger but for us I think that would have been too big especially when my kid leaves home and for us it meant less debt and a greater chance the house won’t be too big for us in later life. What you could do is work out how many rooms you actually will require and use for now and in the future based upon your own lifestyle and needs. Then visit show homes etc and identify the size of rooms you would like to live in. Eg you may identify you want 3 bedrooms 4mx4m, one hobby room 3x4, etc etc etc. Adding all that together will give you an approximate idea of the size of house that you want with optimum room sizes, ideal quantity of rooms, but neither too small nor too big for your needs. If future value is key for you can the discuss this with the local estate agents. From that they may say look don’t building bigger than that doesn’t add that much value, or they may say add another bedroom or whatever. As opposed to just building a house with a arbitrary size. I’ve seen some plans for some astonishing houses with massive volume of rooms and space but TBH even if I could afford them I can’t help but think living in them could be a horrible experience. Up here on the NE Scottish coast I’ve been inside loads of home build by fishing boat owners. Land prices are cheap and they are loaded and build massive awful bland houses as a sign of their wealth. These houses, in my experience, have an awful feeling to them inside, we’re talking lounges that are 10x10 with a couple of leather sofas plonked in. Just hideous. My builder advised me to put in a 4th bedroom which we didn’t need, for economic reasons. So what we did is put that bedroom downstairs to use as a separate 4x4 TV room for use in addition to the 5x5 lounge. Ironically when we don’t have visitors we sit in the TV room because the lounge is too big otherwise. Edited January 23, 2023 by Bozza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said: I'm trying to decide the footprint size I want/we need. ... We're lucky enough to have no real budget limitations but would like the build to make approximate economic sense. ... Don't let anyone in the food-chain attached to your house know that. The p!$$ will be taken mercilessly. Work on £1800 per square meter or less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Our last house was 5 bedrooms 4 bathrooms, so we have "done the big house" but in fairness we did run it as a B&B. This one is 150 square metres 3 bedrooms 2 bathrooms. Not actually that much smaller than the previous 5 bedroom house but this time much more generous room sizes. One of the compromises is to do with council tax, that is our largest non food bill, even now exceeding our energy bill and one you cannot do anything about other than build smaller. To that end part of our "hobby space" is the static caravan that was our temporary accommodation during the build that remains on site as a garden outbuilding with no effect on council tax banding. We concentrated on getting rooms that were generous and not cluttered, but not stupidly large. I wired a large self build a few years back where they did that, each bedroom was 5 metres square with a 4 metre square en-suite. The furniture looked lost and spaced out. The living room was massive as well. then they complained it cost a fortune to heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) You just need to be sensible with it, work with what you got. I’ve seen people with small floor plans that just worked perfectly, just really lovely spaces that use garden space to extend the rooms etc. I’ve also had a massive house where people had bedrooms that were vaulted and 8m long and ugh, horrible. There’s more room for error, but that’s just as bad to me. I have a pet hate of houses that just ‘fill the plot’ and just end up a charmless lump. The worst one I did was for a woman who had a smaller footprint and wouldn’t listen so every room was awkward and stupid too. I think her main problem was she had a larger house and wanted the same things (in the same arrangement) in a small one. so yes, “it’s how you use it” 😉 Edited January 23, 2023 by Papillon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted January 23, 2023 Author Share Posted January 23, 2023 >>> Don't let anyone in the food-chain attached to your house know that. Oh yeah, I can look pretty penniless when necessary - particularly when I'm unshaven and in my builders' gear . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said: when I'm unshaven and in my builders' gear Were you at the blue parrot Friday ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted January 23, 2023 Author Share Posted January 23, 2023 >>> Were you at the blue parrot Friday ? I usually do one of my other rough looks when I go. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) I live (alone) in a small house, 48 m2 total floor area. While it is fine for me size wise, the two things that annoy me is the narrowness, 4 metres wide on the outside, and the stairs in the living room. It makes the living room very narrow, 3 metres wide, and in effect, it is a corridor with a sofa in it. So rather than think in square metres, think about what needs to go in each room, what needs to go against a wall, and what must not be against a wall i.e. 3 sides of a bed. I find that most houses have oversized kitchens and bathroom. It is a great idea that we spend loads of time creating the perfect meal, and a romantic notion about wallowing in a candle lit bathroom for hours. Reality is different. Showers are often too small though. I like @ProDave's idea of building to a Council Band tax limit. Edited January 23, 2023 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted January 23, 2023 Author Share Posted January 23, 2023 Back on topic: as you said, it makes a lot of sense to figure from room sizes up - so based on the plans for a fairly spacious house that we saw which we liked, I'm getting something like: area # GIA Big bed + bath 30 1 30 Bed + bath 20 2 40 Sitting 70 1 70 Kitchen 21 1 21 Plant + utility 15 1 15 Snug 22 1 22 Study 12 1 12 Hall 15 1 15 Loo 3 1 3 213 ... plus outbuildings. This is for a spacious 3-bed with one of the beds being also used as a study so we can both work from home at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted January 23, 2023 Author Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) >>> I like @ProDave's idea of building to a Council Band tax limit. Ah, yeah v. clever, though I can't find for the moment an indication of the valuation office council tax rates by m^2. Is there such a thing - I always thought it was some kind of black magic that we all just accepted? I did find this interesting doc on average valuation per m^2 by region: https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/articles/housepricepersquaremetreandhousepriceperroomenglandandwales/2004to2016/pdf Also this link for checking your neighbour's tax band: https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/check-council-tax-band/search Edited January 23, 2023 by Alan Ambrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Just now, Alan Ambrose said: >>> I like @ProDave's idea of building to a Council Band tax limit. Ah, yeah v. clever, though I can't find for the moment an indication of the valuation office council tax rates by m^2. Is there such a thing - I always thought it was some kind of black magic that we all just accepted? It is a bit of an archaic system, based on property values in 1990 I think (was around then when the poll tax came in). Find a similar size house nearby and see what the charge is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blooda Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 46 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said: >>> Don't let anyone in the food-chain attached to your house know that. Oh yeah, I can look pretty penniless when necessary - particularly when I'm unshaven and in my builders' gear . Need an old old car for when they turn up to site to give quotes - even better an oldish van. Wearing Hi-Viz adds at least 10%. [I am not for one moment advocating not wearing the correct PPE]. Wife wearing Barbour or Dubarry Similar uplift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Just now, Blooda said: Wife wearing Barbour or Dubarry Similar uplift What happens if she wears Ann Summers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blooda Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Just now, SteamyTea said: What happens if she wears Ann Summers? 10% Discount 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Just now, Blooda said: 10% Discount Better get two wives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 17 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said: Sitting 70m2 That's huge, you will need an intercom system to speak to anyone. We have 3 large bedrooms and 3 bathrooms in the same space. I assume your loo will become the accessibility toilet sink ect, but sounds to small at 3m2. Seems at lot of house for just 2 bedrooms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted January 23, 2023 Author Share Posted January 23, 2023 >>> Seems at lot of house for just 2 bedrooms? Ah 3 beds, the column headings didn't come out so well. We do have a crazy big sitting room now which we are quite used to - and actually like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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