Shower seal woes.

[zoothorn]

Hi chaps, 
 

I have a small persistent problem, causing bigger longterm woes & damage. The shower screen seal area, particularly the hinge corner. I've got a new clear 16mm seal strip, with two fins one long one/ other shorter.

 

Firstly- which way round? Long fin bath side, or short fin bath side? (Www info suggests both ways correct!).

 

Secondly- I get an incredibly annoying leak at this area. It's help to ruin the lino, the bottom edge of the bath side section, & creates water ingress to the hardboard underneath the lino. It happens 50% of time I have a shower (leaving me perplexed), & about a good litre+ of water on my lino floor after a shower when it happens.

 

Trouble is I just cannot establish -precisely- where the problem lies. So I can never resolve it. I lay down 2 big sponges on the inside of bath at this corner when I use the shower.. but the leak still happens even so.

 

Driven me absolutely mad for 5 years this.

 

Thanks, Zoot.

[zoothorn]

[ProDave]

Firstly, read any of the reviews, that sort of shower screen and seal are absolutely rubbish.

 

You need to establish if the leak is actually water passing under the seal, OR water passing under the chrome bit between the hinge point and the wall.

 

Effective but naff looking solution, a shower curtain on the inside, it need not be a full size one, perhaps a cut down one to just cover that corner section to keep that dry, so not too clingy in use?

[zoothorn]

6 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Firstly, read any of the reviews, that sort of shower screen and seal are absolutely rubbish.

 

You need to establish if the leak is actually water passing under the seal, OR water passing under the chrome bit between the hinge point and the wall.

 

Effective but naff looking solution, a shower curtain on the inside, it need not be a full size one, perhaps a cut down one to just cover that corner section to keep that dry, so not too clingy in use?

Hi there ProDave,

 

but I haven't read any bad reviews tbh. If the seal that came with it when new, needs replacing, due to green mould that's impossible to remove, then I surely buy a same type, because it 'll be correct for it. I just need the same two-fins type, the correct glass dim, & the right 'drop'. Which I've done.

 

Firstly I need to attach this. Logic seems to suggest if the short fin was outside.. it cannot be of any use, so this shorter fin must surely need to go on the inside/ bathside. But, both ways shown as correct online.

 

Once fitted, I might have a better chance of establishing -where- the water is getting through. Trouble is if Im outside the door looking I can't just turn shower on, aim it twds this corner, as I have a 50% chance alot of water will just emerge. If Im inside shower & turn it on, I can't see at this exact area properly. If I had someone to help.. it'd be much easier.

 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

A shower curtain won't help tho, if, there's water on the top of the bath behind taps ( which there always will be) which then hits this fallible hinge area, behind the curtain.

 

 

[BotusBuild]

I presume the clear plastic thing on the top of the bath edge is the new seal? and the perspex panel does meet it in such a way that the water runs off the perspex, onto the seal and then towards the bath itself?

 

If so, then it needs putting right up against the bottom of the hinge (as per the added arrow), so that the above described flow of water happens all the way - at the moment it seems you have an approx 2" gap where the water can run off the perspex and then both ways - into the bath, or over the side and onto the floor!!

 

When you move the seal to butt up against the hinge I would put a little bit of sealant in between the seal and the hinge (belt and braces)

 

[Gone West]

3 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Firstly- which way round?

I had a similar hinged shower screen on my bath at my last place. IIRC when I fitted it I put the longer fin bath side.

 

3 hours ago, zoothorn said:

I get an incredibly annoying leak at this area.

A couple of questions, how is the whole length of the hinge frame, sealed to the wall and how is the bottom of the hinge frame, sealed to the bath.

[saveasteading]

I had one of those, same problem, tried everything and failed.

Sold the flat, with the issue, but would othereisd probably have changed the screen. 

 

[zoothorn]

@BotusBuild 

 

Hi there, thanks for the reply- don't think I've had one from yourself before/ appreciated.

 

Sorry my photo makes it seem like I'm more inept than I am. The new seal here is just resting, waiting to be fitted to the glass above. I need to establish which way round this slips onto it, first Q. It seems it's a 50/50 opinion which way round. I just cant think it logical to have the shorter fin outside, as then it serves no function-?

 

I've cut it as best I can perfectly 90* so it butts up against the door hinge, with as minimal a gap as poss... but still there's a tiny gap. Afaict it's a flawed design as the force of door opening bends the big fin a bit, & over a short time this bend is stuck firm, meaning a gap develops at this join (you can barely detect without contorting yourself & to look with a magnifying glass).

 

I'm not sure if ProDave was suggesting an alternate seal strip thing to mine-? 

Bloody thing Im sick of it, but seems there's no alternative door/ all will have the same inherrant issue surely.

 

Thanks, zoot

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[saveasteading]

Just now, zoothorn said:

but still there's a tiny gap.

And water will pour through it, by all the rules of Murphy , Sod, Butterside et al.

[zoothorn]

2 hours ago, saveasteading said:

I had one of those, same problem, tried everything and failed.

Sold the flat, with the issue, but would othereisd probably have changed the screen. 

 

Im not selling the house SAS. That's going too far.

[zoothorn]

@saveasteading I get your point though.. these things are nigh on impossible.
 

But what alternative situation could I have than a door screen I wonder with a bath, & a shower one end?

[Iceverge]

These seals are indeed rubbish. 

 

I would remove the screen. Make sure the bath to wall seal was continuous right out to the edge of the bath. It may require cutting an arc out of the shower door as shown  ( notice my hi-tech 3d renderings!) or doing some inventive siliconing. Then running a band of clear silicone where the yellow is at the outside of the screen only ( ask me how I found this out!

 

 

Then attach some kind of dam where the blue line is. Maybe a strip of PVC?  It may prevent the screen from moving outboard but should help any drips work their way back into the shower. 

 

 

 

Alternatively those curved shower curtains are actually not too bad.  They don't tend to get all damp and clingy like that uninvited affection we've all had with shower curtains of yore. 

 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

2 hours ago, Gone West said:

I had a similar hinged shower screen on my bath at my last place. IIRC when I fitted it I put the longer fin bath side.

 

A couple of questions, how is the whole length of the hinge frame, sealed to the wall and how is the bottom of the hinge frame, sealed to the bath.

Good Q GW. It has a vertical outside bead of silicone only- Im led to believe this is correct. I didn't think to silicone the base of the hinge to the tub top.. being such a flat bottom to it, & it sitting firmly on the bath.. but maybe water could be getting through under it. Such a tiny gap though, & I did have a silicone outside bead running horizontally from wall out to the hinge, to negate this possibility, which I was going to redo.

 

I'll try a razorblade underneath the round hinge 1" diameter bottom, clean out & force in some silicone here.

 

Failing that I cant see what else I could possibly do.

[zoothorn]

Hi @Iceverge not sure if I've had a reply from you before too.. grateful for the ideas.

 

I had actually put a big bead of silicone exactly where your 3D block is, & your yellow line/ here I have removed it to redo: but it was firm before, no failings here afaict. 
 

So it's he hinge, & forward of this/ the seal strip, which I think the leak happens. Your dam idea is good, but the water might only run along, & exit half way down the bath onto the floor tho. The curtain: you see the bath taps area will still get wet.. resulting in water @ this achilles heel hinge.

 

Hmm. Not easy this. Thanks chaps.

 

 

[Gone West]

12 hours ago, zoothorn said:

It has a vertical outside bead of silicone only

That is good, but water can get behind the vertical hinge frame and if the bath isn't well sealed against the wall, water can get down behind the end of the bath. Although all these gaps are very small they will allow a significant amount of water to get onto the floor over a peiod of time.

[zoothorn]

4 hours ago, Gone West said:

That is good, but water can get behind the vertical hinge frame and if the bath isn't well sealed against the wall, water can get down behind the end of the bath. Although all these gaps are very small they will allow a significant amount of water to get onto the floor over a peiod of time.

Hi GW. To be honest the sealing Ive done behind bath, vertical up outside of door as said, where the 3D drawing & yellow line is, all are solid & Im confident no water is getting past here.

 

The bath is a little tilted, meaning one tap is slightly lower than other, & towards the door. This means that the water coming down the wall @ shower unit/ bath taps end.. which would occur even with a shower curtain.. is collecting at the door hinge. Now, it's possible the water is getting into hinge, & overflowing my outside silicone seal (yellow line area). I can't reset the bath- huge job, so I need to make this fallible corner as best I can get it. I think innevitably a little water might get by, whatever I do. Im just trying to rid this huge 1+ litre of water I find pooled on the lino after a shower.

 

 

Maybe just go nuts with the clear silicone, just on the outside of this area. Then razorblade under hinge btm & force silicone in this tiny gap. Lastly fit (& cut/ shape) this new placcy seal strip super accurately to minimise the inneviatble tiny gap at the hinge end. Then a big grout sponge placed inside whist showering.
 

That's all I think I can do.. bar replacing the door. But if a new one has the same basic design, Im in the same boat & £85 spent for zilch. And I can't think of any other basic door design, for my bath, would be suitable too.

 

Thanks, zoot 

[Nickfromwales]

On 18/01/2023 at 13:33, zoothorn said:

This will be leaking behind the base of the chrome wall channel also. The installer of the bath and wall panels should have left you with a continuous bead of sealant right along and across the bath / wall junction, with it visible at the outside edge of the chrome wall channel. 
Issue is, water runs down the inside of the chrome wall channel, and capillary action pulls the water inside that ‘box’ section. That then flows down to the bottom of the inside of the box, and the only way out is to drain into the gap between the bath and wall ( under the base of screen wall channel and completely out of sight ). 
The number creator of almost 100% of the insurance work I used to get given. 

[zoothorn]

24 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

This will be leaking behind the base of the chrome wall channel also. The installer of the bath and wall panels should have left you with a continuous bead of sealant right along and across the bath / wall junction, with it visible at the outside edge of the chrome wall channel. 
Issue is, water runs down the inside of the chrome wall channel, and capillary action pulls the water inside that ‘box’ section. That then flows down to the bottom of the inside of the box, and the only way out is to drain into the gap between the bath and wall ( under the base of screen wall channel and completely out of sight ). 
The number creator of almost 100% of the insurance work I used to get given. 

Hi Nick, actually the photo here was only regarding the seal strip, & which way round it goes. Im still guessing on this tbh/ there seems no consensus.

 

The pic was taken -after- I have removed my silicone from the chrome section & cleaned this area. Then I plan to redo this silicone. I fitted the door. It sits flat upon the bath top.

 

So prior to this, the silicone here was decent & no sign that the water was emerging from A) under this chrome section, & B) under the round chrome hinge base either. Because my silicone here was good, firm, & went all the way from wall, out along the chrome section, onward to the base of the round hinge base too, up to where my door opens to maximum ( the sink preventing it opening further).

 

So the water has got through either/ &/or: over the top of my silicone barrier here at the chrome section, @ the join of the placcy strip to the door's round chrome hinge base, @ the placcy strip itself possibly being mishapen by the door opening & closing, over time, over the bath edge.

 

I'm sure I've ruled out it escaping from behind bath to the wall & out somehow, at the (lowest part) of the chrome section (ie underneath it), & underneath the round chrome door hinge part. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by zoothorn

[zoothorn]

Anyway chaps thanks, I don't think you can really help anymore than you have. These doors seem to just have a fallible design, so I need to think of options.

 

I'll just redo it all, with this new strip, & go from there. I may get lucky.

 

Grateful- zoot

[Susie]

A bit late as I think you have had enough but incase someone else reads we had this in a hotel which worked well so we are replacing our hinged screen to stop water splashes come out further down where screen finishes. 
https://www.qssupplies.co.uk/bathroom-furniture-shower-taps/91721.htm?srsltid=AeTuncqrptgoRmFCtDJeR69YHahjZmVtVmq56pgT-pD1uvuLw-8N90d6GBk

 

a very neat combination of screen and curtain. 

[ProDave]

The real "fault" is the bath design. A completely flat top.

 

In a previous house we had a more styled bath, there was a slight raised edge right on the outside with the rest sloping down very slightly to the bath.

 

Never had any problems because water naturally drained away from the edge and the shower screen seal therefore did not need to do much work.

[zoothorn]

@Susie Hi there thank you for your reply. Looks very snazzy that bath area. I can't quite see the shower screen though.. oddly not even on the site's diagram & details. I can only see the rail, & a small glass door section.

 

Thing is, whatever proposed alternative, including curtain sheets, water will still innevitably sit on the top of the bath @ the taps area. Condensation can't be avoided ( my tiles are always super cold even in summer- just the stone house) clinging to the shower unit wall above bath taps > drips down > pools on the tub top. Slight slope ( can't change this) on the tub here.. & water collects & focuses on the fallible hinge area.

 

The 'dam' lip addition, along the edge of the bath outside of the problem area, is a useful idea. I need to do some major waterproofing 1st.
 

Much Food for thought- gratefully, zoot

 

[zoothorn]

7 hours ago, ProDave said:

The real "fault" is the bath design. A completely flat top.

 

In a previous house we had a more styled bath, there was a slight raised edge right on the outside with the rest sloping down very slightly to the bath.

 

Never had any problems because water naturally drained away from the edge and the shower screen seal therefore did not need to do much work.

Hi ProDave, I see what you mean/ the tubs should have a slight inward slope all around, even if the outer rim area has a 2cm flat bit for a door seal strip. Mine, is even worse being slightly sloped -towards- the hinge ( so the bath is on a tiny tilt, LHS cold tap therefore a fraction lower than RH hot one) which of course draws a but more water than usual twds my hinge area.

 

I guess it's just the nature of 'budget' tubs which mine surely is.

[gaz_moose]

i had something like this happen, turns out i had fitted the screen upside down and the top and bottom hinges were the wrong way round.