Nick Thomas Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 My sister isn't big on gardening, but has a respectable front garden (~30M²) and huge back garden (~150M²), both of which had been left to their own devices for about 5 years... until she got an enforcement notice from the council last year. I got someone to come and clear both last autumn to get them off her back, but left alone, I suspect it'll just go back to the same state in a year or two - they just cut down to ground level, so there are loads of bramble roots in there. The whole site is infested with mare's tail as well. So, I'm trying to come up with a more permanent solution. The current plan is to put down weed-suppressant membrane and then cover that with blue slate chippings (she likes how they look when wet). I gather I'll need 3 bulk bags (850-1000kg sort of size) for the front, and... uh, 15, for the back. Best price I've been able to find online for this stuff is ~£100/bag, which makes the back garden uneconomic, but I could still do the front. I've emailed a local-ish quarry (~50 miles) asking them for prices, but I worry it won't be *that* much lower, or that they won't be able to deliver, or that they won't be interested in an order of this size. Don't think I'd be able to accept 18 tonnes of loose chippings at the site, anyway, but... worth a try. Before placing the order, I wanted to check if there's anything I'm missing - it seems like a dead simple job, just get the membrane down onto cleared ground, pin it, then cover with the chippings. It'd suck if I had to move them again later to rectify something though 😬. Should be neutral w/rt drainage, right? The house is surrounded by 1M or more of concrete, so the ground being covered isn't adjacent to it. There's also a decent step down to the ground from the concrete, maybe 100mm or so. * Does £100/bulk bag seem reasonable? Anyone got a source for significantly less that'd deliver to the Leeds/York sort of area? Chances of a quarry offering it at 50/bag? * Is it worth doing multiple layers of the membrane? Any other steps I'm missing? * 20mm or 40mm chippings? Or is that just an aesthetic choice? Would the smaller ones cover a bit more area for the same money? * Is 50mm depth going to be enough? Minimum I can reasonably get away with would be great 😅. I assume it's not hard to top up later if I'm a bit under? * Alternative ideas for covering the back garden? The looks don't matter much, it just needs to be cheap. (I was pondering linoleum with car tyres on at one point, but looks matter enough to keep *that* from being a goer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 I’d use 3 or 4 different gravel types - I can get 20mm broken flint/gravel at £30/tonne delivered bulk so I would use that as the predominant “material” and then lay “rivers” of the blue slate connecting two or three feature type trees. I would go simple with structural trees that need no attention such as a multi stem Cornus or Betula and then 3 or 4 of these would make for a nice layout. I’d also look at using a decent geotextile on a 5m width roll, make sure it’s pegged down properly and also probably spray off the whole area with Glyphosate before laying the membrane 2 or 3 weeks later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Thomas Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) Thanks for the reply, some good ideas there. The back garden is broken up a couple of zones already via a concrete path, and there's a few trees hanging around, so it wasn't going to be a single expanse of slate, at least. Definitely more I could do there, though. If I could find anything for £30/tonne I'd be using it 😅 - best I've found so far is £60/tonne for 20mm limestone chippings, which I disregarded as I assume they'll dissolve over time. She'll probably be in the house, and uninterested in the garden, for the next 50 years or something. Maybe the quarry will come back with some good pricing; I only asked about the slate, if they do my size of order, I could ask about the other gravel times. I'm not big on weedkiller, but I suppose it hardly matters if it's going to be covered for half a century or something 🤷♂️ Edited January 15, 2023 by Nick Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayc89 Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 A couple of years ago we got 20mm limestone at £30.25/t. That was dropped loose. Part loads came in at approx £39/t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Limestone goes a mucky grey over time but never seen it dissolve ! Cracked flint should be cheap - you may have to work out how to take a 17 tonne load to make it worthwhile but it looks good as it’s multi coloured. Don’t forget a tipper can probably tip over a 3ft wall with care if the driver can get square onto it so the front garden could be the tip zone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Get a gardener to come in to keep on top of the worst of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Thomas Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, PeterW said: you may have to work out how to take a 17 tonne load to make it worthwhile Starting to become convinced this is the issue with pricing. It would be amazing to be able to get a loose load in, but I just don't think it'll work on the site. There's no access to the back at all, and I don't think I could dump into the front garden either. Layout is roughly: Not to scale, obvs. As far as I can see, the only option is to pop it onto the concrete surface in front of the garage (you can park 1½ cars on it, for an idea of scale). A pile of loose anything would spill everywhere and apply pressure to the rickety wall shared with the left-side neighbour, which makes me nervous. I can't see a big truck being able to come in at an angle to dump it onto the garden bit :/, not least because there's a good drop down to the green, but it's also narrow and awkward even if it were level.. However it comes, I'm resigned to barrowing the 15 tonnes required for the back garden through the garage. It'll just be me, so probably a multi-day effort. That means whatever I buy will be sat wherever it gets put for a while as I nibble away at it. 26 minutes ago, Kelvin said: Get a gardener to come in to keep on top of the worst of it. Definitely not :D. Would work for some, I guess. Edited January 15, 2023 by Nick Thomas more detail on access Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 How wide is the access ..? Would need 2.9m for most tippers to be comfortable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Thomas Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 7 minutes ago, PeterW said: How wide is the access ..? 2.5M, or thereabouts. We've not had a discussion about removing the hedge. That could be interesting, but not sure it's worth it to save ~1K on this specific thing. It'd need to be replaced with an antisocial fence if it did go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Thomas Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 Oh my. Apparently sand and gravel can be (wet) pumped... but I guess that's designed for a whole other scale of project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 Nothing is zero maintenance. No 1 is grass and buy a lawnmower. Anything else is buy a backpack sprayer and some Gallup XL (Glyphosate) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 PeterW advice abut layering is good. The cheap stone will be half the price of the expensive. Talk to either the quarry or a haulier who sells stone. Tell them what the plan is and ask what stone they have. Include reclaimed stone, and crushed brick or concrete should be cheap for your base. That will come in 20 tonne loads. Beware that the cost is per tonne, and you get something like 1.8 tonnes per m2, ie les than it sounds. Can you get a lorry in? If so, a friendly driver will move forward as it slides out. Membrane yes. 60p /m2 for non-woven, which is best for keeping weeds under. That will also stop mud coming through and mixing with your stone. I don't think you will need weed-killer, and can always zap any that come through. But why stone it over? green is good. 22 minutes ago, Nick Thomas said: sand and gravel can be (wet) pumped. Yes, so if you have a barge in an adjacent estuary, that is an option. otherwise...no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Thomas Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 16 minutes ago, saveasteading said: But why stone it over? green is good. It made a great nature reserve for five years. Foxes lived in it. Last year, a neighbour complained to the council, the council issued an enforcement notice. I don't want my sister back in that situation in a couple of years, and definitely don't want to be bailing her out on a regular basis over it. If it helps, the next garden over is also overgrown, so the foxes still have somewhere to live. Presumably the complaining neighbours aren't able to see that one ^^. It does mean that re-encroachment is likely, though. 35 minutes ago, ProDave said: Nothing is zero maintenance. No 1 is grass and buy a lawnmower. Lawn is where we were five years ago, there's nothing of it left now ^^. I have to be pragmatic and accept that any kind of regular maintenance simply won't happen, especially not grass cutting. Stone chippings might not be zero-maintenance, but they're a lot closer to it than a shiny new lawn would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 (edited) 19 hours ago, Kelvin said: Get a gardener to come in to keep on top of the worst of it. There is a books that may help. Or movies, if food enters into it. Edited January 16, 2023 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Thomas Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 Welp, the quarry never got back to me, so I've ordered the three bulk bags of slate and a geotextile membrane big enough to do two layers without any seams. Hopefully the front garden will be sorted Wednesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Thomas Posted February 15, 2023 Author Share Posted February 15, 2023 Turns out three tonnes of slate is really heavy. Who knew ^^. We got some way toward done, but the slate is very unevenly distributed. It wasn't until bag three that we hit on the method of filling buckets from the bulk bag, and emptying them on the far side. Conceptually, this was a battle against friction, and pushing the chips along the ground was not a great way to minimise that. Back again at the weekend to sort out the edges and try to level it out some more; then give the hedge another severe cutback. Half hoping it dies, honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 2 hours ago, Nick Thomas said: Turns out three tonnes of slate is really heavy. Who knew Frederick Winslow Taylor did. "One of his most famous studies involved shovels. He noticed that workers used the same shovel for all materials. He determined that the most effective load was 21½ pounds, and found or designed shovels that for each material would scoop up that amount." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Thomas Posted February 15, 2023 Author Share Posted February 15, 2023 TBH Taylor has been very deeply mythologised. Labour and Monopoly Capital has a good account of the process, and the various inaccuracies that crept into that particular story over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patp Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 Wildflowers? They do have to be cut but only once per year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markocosic Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 Tip it on the street and shovel fast 😇 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Thomas Posted March 12, 2023 Author Share Posted March 12, 2023 (edited) Fortunately, this is done now 😅 A bit of a before/after: There was a lot of ivy hiding in that grass. Edited March 12, 2023 by Nick Thomas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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