PXR5 Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 My neighbour's retaining wall is bulging & they refuse to repair it. It is theirs, not mine, some one in the past has planted bushes & these roots have pushed out the stone wall. I did offer to help them with it,but they are refusing to remove the bushes & are trying to get me to do all the work at my cost, they have suggested that I move the wall over onto my land. as they want to keep the bushes? How much does it cost to take some one to court over this? My first move would be a solicitors letter, but I dont think that would be enough. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Do you have legal cover in your household insurance ..? A failed retaining wall could cause significant damage - your insurers may be very interested ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PXR5 Posted January 8, 2023 Author Share Posted January 8, 2023 No insurance, this is some land I have, I have just had planning permission granted to build a house, these people think I should pay for their wall given Im developing the land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) Can they afford to fix it? Retaining walls can be pretty expensive. How high is it? If its dangerous Building Control might intervene. Possibly more likely if the site is an open green space that children can access rather than a fenced off building site but worth a try. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/246863/130510_-_Circular_Letter___Walls__Final_.pdf Quote Construction and maintenance of boundary and retaining walls The purpose of this Circular Letter is to draw your attention to the safe design, construction and maintenance of freestanding boundary and retaining walls. The Department is aware of a recent case where a young child was tragically killed by the collapse of a poorly constructed wall. Whilst incidents involving wall collapse are relatively rare the Department for Communities and Local Government want to take this opportunity to remind people of the best practise guidance on wall maintenance and construction that already exists. Snip Dangerous structures Where they consider that a building or structure, or part of it, is in such a state or is used to carry such loads as to be dangerous, local authorities have powers under sections 77 and 78 of the Building Act 1984 to take action to remove danger to the public. The exercise of such action may be appropriate for freestanding boundary and retaining walls that present a danger . See also.. https://www.northampton.gov.uk/info/200011/building-control/1695/building-control-guidance---dangerous-structures Quote For the purposes of Building Regulations, there are two types of dangerous structures: Imminent: structures which are at risk of collapse and must be secured for public safety. The owner will normally be recharged for emergency works carried out in these cases Hazardous: structures which from a survey are unstable but not imminently dangerous. In these cases the owner is given a reasonable time to remove the danger. Failure to respond may result in a Magistrates Court Order being obtained. Edited January 8, 2023 by Temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyt Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 Your insurers wont be interested, no damage occured, no insured peril. However if you notify your neighbours of your conern and document it, if it comes to a claim your neighbour's PL insurers (usually contents) may in a sticky position. Damage was forseeable and your neighbours negligently did nothing. Photos letters, annual reminders and file until needed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 11 hours ago, PXR5 said: My neighbour's retaining wall is bulging & they refuse to repair it. It is theirs, not mine, some one in the past has planted bushes & these roots have pushed out the stone wall. I did offer to help them with it,but they are refusing to remove the bushes & are trying to get me to do all the work at my cost, they have suggested that I move the wall over onto my land. as they want to keep the bushes? How much does it cost to take some one to court over this? My first move would be a solicitors letter, but I dont think that would be enough. 11 hours ago, PXR5 said: No insurance, this is some land I have, I have just had planning permission granted to build a house, these people think I should pay for their wall given Im developing the land. This is also a bit for all on BH. I'll assume that you are going to build a home for yourself rather than just looking at this as a commercial opportunity? If so (commercial) then you should be sticking your hand in your pocket for professional advice and not be tooling about on BH for free advice as folk on BH also think about their neighbours. I do a bit of claims work I but don't just act for developers / builders I also act to defend home owners against development in an SE capacity. I hope you get my drift? Here is a thing. As an SE I do a bit of claims against say the NHBC.. by the time I get called up folk are often at their wits end, suffered a lot and have spent loads of cash, often unnecessarily. Positive note: Let's assume you are building your forever home.. you want to get on with your neighbours, some can become great friends, keep an eye out on your property when you are away.. gives your kids a neighbour to go to in an emergency or you too when you get older and need a hand out. That has a value. Holding that train of thought.. you want to get on with your neighbours... really you do in the long run. 11 hours ago, PXR5 said: My first move would be a solicitors letter, but I dont think that would be enough. I'm stating the obvious but your neighbours may feel they were there first.. have ownership of the view / privacy and been able to plant up their garden the way we they wanted. This is human nature.. imagine yourself in their shoes? If you can't then you need to learn more about negotiation. I'm not suggesting you go all soft.. but to negotiate well you have to put yourself in your "enemies" shoes and if you want a forever home you need to compromise to get good neighbours and what you want without a big legal barny and the risk that comes with it. Lastly never under estimate your neighbours, some may have friends / have relatives who may be with KC's, Lawyers QS's, Architechts, SE's and CE's the list goes on.. and if they feel you are bullying they will jump to their defense and often work pro bono.. I do and can tell you I can quickly rack up the stakes for you just as an SE.. to the point where you will often wish you had never gone down the legal route. Imagine your neighbour came on BH looking for advice? How would that play out? To make a start on resolving something like this, your post suggests you are already frustrated? Go back to the start. Ask: 1/ Is the wall dangerous.. is it a high wall? say greater than 1.0m in height. Could it hurt someone. Lets say the boundary wall is 1.2m - 2.0 high. As a rule of thumb if the top of the wall is more than 1/3 over the centre of gravity then that is a good starting basis as an SE for making the case that the wall is not safe. Say the wall is in old money 1 foot / 12 inches thick. The middle third is 12/3 = 4 inches. Thus if the wall is leaning out more than 2" (50mm) at the top then you question the stability. Next is the condition of the mortar.. if it has deteriorated then that has to be considered. If roots have penetrated the wall.. again this leads to instability. 2/ What do I want to build? How close to the disputed wall do I want to go? Best thing to do is to mull this over at your end. Post a few photos and your ideas / plans. The good news is that you probably have more options than you realise, often with a bit of tact things can be resolved. I totally get that you feel you may want to go legal.. but you'll just suffer grief. The first thing you need to do is fully understand the problem. Why is the wall bulging and what are the consequences. Safety is paramount and that is where your best argument lies. Unless the wall is unsafe your neighbours are probably doing nothing wrong! It may well fall to you to prove it is unsafe. Also if you build something next to the wall that compromises it further then the responsibility lies with you.. be careful what you wish for! 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PXR5 Posted January 8, 2023 Author Share Posted January 8, 2023 Thanks for the replies, I have taken pics. Im unlucky to have the most unpleasant & disagreable people to deal with, I'm quite sure Ill need to take leagl action to get them to do anything. I dont think building control will get envolved, as there's not much of a public danger . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, PXR5 said: Thanks for the replies, I laid it on a bit thick in my last post so please don't take it as being nasty. Yes post some pics.. and will be happy to chip in.. more friendly the next time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PXR5 Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) There is no chance of having a decent relationship with these people, I live opposite to to my land, its a small village, I've lived here for over 40 years,these scumbags have been here for only 8 months, in this time they have only caused problems, & have tried to make me pay for their wall. I'm known as the person that will help any one, I've never had any problems with anyone in the past 40 years, until now. Legal action is the only way forward, not my way of doing things, as said I offered to help them.................. Edited January 9, 2023 by PXR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PXR5 Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 I think I should add, these people dont have any garages or off road parking, I have garages to the rear of their house, as soon as they found out I owned the garages & land, they hassled me for days about selling them. I needed them for my house build so could not, ever since they have been nice to my face then at the same time writing the most outrageous lies on my planning application,. They then had building control out, saying I had started my build before P'permission was granted. building Con' found I had not! thankfully as I would have lost my CIL exemption Ive also been visited twice by the Police, 1st time was unclear as to why, the police just asked me whats going on re; the retaining wall, 2nd time was about the CCTV I've recently installed. Since they have moved here, Ive had my car keyed, two tires slashed, and my mini digger had the ram pipes undone, I lost 30 litres of oil. this is in a quite ( untill now) Cotswolds village ....... So, Im not too happy about things............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 34 minutes ago, PXR5 said: Legal action is the only way forward, not my way of doing things, as said I offered to help them Ok I get it, country boy myself, go beating / lamping and so on.. get your point. Play the it country way! Go canny, post some photos and lets see how bad the wall is and then you can get heavy with a few technical observations.. probably scare them off. The objective is to put the ball into their court and let them realise that to defend they will have to stump up some cash. Also you need to finesse.. you have chosen to live in the country for a different life.. don't come and try to change it to suit your ideal. In the country we shoot deer / foxes, have hounds and do vermin control. We eat deer..called venison. Waitrose sell the same but in a nice plastic packet... but most have been shot by folk like myself. Yes even farmed deer are head shot folks, they don't get put in a trailer like sheep and carted off to the slaughter house.. a horrific journey? But if you have ever been near a sluaghter house..it's not for the faint hearted.. the animals can smell fear. What do you want to do build development wise? Don't panic.. and stay away from the legal stuff for now.. you'll get lot's of help here BH. If you give a bit of info you can probably turn this around.. and let the new folk "see the light" and the benefits of living in the country. I think if you can hit them with the risk / cost element they may embrace the fact that country folk are not daft? I do wonder if this will get by the mods? Can I talk about how you design a house in the country and how that fits with the life in the country and where our food comes from. Mods.. if this sounds a bit blood thirsty for you.. what about this.. I kept free range chickens / ducks and had a few pheasant pens.. but they mostly the hens (chi9ckens) laid their eggs under hedges.. next thing a hedgehog comes along and scoffs up their nearly hatched eggs, the hens went nuts.. but for me the hog was a delight.. You see @PXR5 yes push back hard against the incomers wanting to make the environment like a city. If we don't the country and our way of life will be be lost to our kids. For those that live in cities.. if they all become one you will have nowhere to go for tranquility and that woke stuff called "diversity" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PXR5 Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 I forgot to add, they have a kitchen window that looks across the road & through my double gates into my yard, in the corner I have an external toilet that can be seen throught the gates. The husband has a habit of staring in at my yard through the gates, so much so that my wife & daughter became too embarrassed to use the toilet, that is untill I draped plastic vines over the gates & parked my Disco in front to prevent his proclivity for toilet watching....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 10 minutes ago, PXR5 said: I think I should add, Your post over lapped! You posted when I was writing! 11 minutes ago, PXR5 said: Since they have moved here, Ive had my car keyed, two tires slashed, and my mini digger had the ram pipes undone, I lost 30 litres of oil. this is in a quite ( untill now) Cotswolds village ....... So, Im not too happy about things............ 12 minutes ago, PXR5 said: Ive also been visited twice by the Police, Steady on here.. Sounds to me like time for cool heads. 14 minutes ago, PXR5 said: the most outrageous lies on my planning application,. Don't let that get to you.. surprisingly folk will sit for many hours/ days and write objections.. some are complete bonkers.. but it is a public service so some folk just like letting off steam. What matters to the planners. is relevant comment. I have Clients that have had some horrible things posted on the planning portal.. objections. then they get planning and the neighbours realise that they.. they (the new folk) are a good bunch.. and wish they had not written that stuff on the public record! 27 minutes ago, PXR5 said: Ive also been visited twice by the Police, Calm down and take step back. From reading your posts you seem to have some means so you don't qualify in my book as say a young person just starting out buying their first home . Me too have had brushes with the police so if you want a bit of help then as an old Electiricial (who was a Church Elder) that I worked with used to say. Gus.. the truth will set you free! @PXR5 I think you are not playing this off a straight batt Over to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, PXR5 said: No insurance, this is some land I have, 31 minutes ago, PXR5 said: forgot to add, they have a kitchen window that looks across the road & through my double gates into my yard, in the corner I have an external toilet that can be seen throught the gates. Had to edit as my soft side kicked in. Edited January 9, 2023 by Gus Potter Cause I'm a softy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 If you re about to develop the land Re building a retaining wall in the grand scheme of things isn’t a major job and stop this rumbling on throughout the build It would be a long and expensive process to force your neighbor to rebuild it Which leaves you with two options 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) @pxr5, reading this thread, I'd suggest designing, costing , and then build it. Watch that cost disappear into the total bill. Reclaim the VAT if indeed you are a Domestic Client (CDM 2015) and not a developer. Problem stopped dead in its tracks. Just play it straight. Photos help us help you. Edited January 9, 2023 by ToughButterCup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twice round the block Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 If the wall collapses onto your land at least you'll have a supply of s/h bricks or hard-core. This was my wall that when I cut the ivy off the otherside the wall fell into my neighbours garden !!! Is your neighbours wall as high or bulging out as much as mine was ??? if not I don't think you have a problem.... apart from a personality clash. Kiss and make up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 If you re build the wall you could put a six foot fence on top to keep them from snooping 😎. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PXR5 Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 The trouble is the bushes & a tree have roots that are forceing the wall out & the wall will collape.They are refuseing to remove the tree/ bushes as they have been planted smack right at the boundry ( to maximise their narrow garden). So unless I give up 2 feet of my land the problem will only get worse. I can not talk to these vile stupid people, Ive tried there is no point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PXR5 Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) Who’s land is the wall on? How long has the wall been there? ahh, just seen the pics too .. a new wall on your side cast up against the existing to stop any movement and root penetration. Edited January 9, 2023 by markc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PXR5 Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) The retaining wall is their responsibility, the pics show my man on my land. This is in a very old cotswold village, the terraced gardens have been as is, for over 70+ years.I should also add, the moment I do any work to that wall I take on responsibility for it. The way they have been I would be very foolish to do so. They have shown them self's to be what they are, you can not have mutal benifical negotiations with people like this . Edited January 9, 2023 by PXR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 To be honest that doesn’t look too bad. The reality you face is that they aren’t going to do anything about this. You could go legal but no one ever seems to win in neighbour disputes. It’ll be protracted and it’ll cost you one way or another. You could go all technical on them as suggested above but they’ll ignore that. Assuming it is them that have committed the criminal damage on your property you know the kind of people you are dealing with. It’s like Newton’s 3rd law the more you push back the more they’ll react against it. Therefore what to do? What’s the most important thing in all of this? Presumably building the house so that’s the focus of all your energy. As suggested you could build something along the retaining wall to contain it without touching the wall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twice round the block Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 The wall looks fine. You'll be building a meter from the boundary anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PXR5 Posted January 9, 2023 Author Share Posted January 9, 2023 Im in no rush to do the build, so I've layed hard core on the ground & Ill use the area for my spare yard. I'll repair my plant there, pile up my building gear, gas bottles etc, shame it will look so bad from their windon. I plan to start the work in 3 years time, perhaps the wall will collapse & they will then have to repair it. I assume if it goes down, its a black & white issue, & they will have to repair it?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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