Calculating for the use of sand for a thermal store.

[SteamyTea]

2 minutes ago, pdf27 said:

wind farm

Had a quick look, seems they only have one wind turbine, and one under construction.

May have missed something as my barmaid (actually the pub manager) friend decided to lean over the table to chat to me.

I lost all concentration.

[ProDave]

Might I suggest I start a thread to discuss Ripple Energy?  I was thinking about doing so anyway, and it would stop this thread going off topic.

 

EDIT: 

 

Thread for Ripple Energy discussion is here.

 

 

[Roger440]

2 hours ago, pdf27 said:

 

Whatever you do a gasification boiler is going to add a lot of complexity. If it's just PV then you can just wire all the immersion heaters up with DPDT relays to replace the SPDT. That way once the first immersion reaches temperature and the relay fires, the current is connected to the next immersion, and so on. 

 

Exactly how long would it take for a plumber to get to where you live, 6 weeks? This is supplementing the existing heating system I assume, in which case reliability really isn't that big a deal. Valves, etc. are reliable enough that they're rarely the cause of problems in domestic systems.

 

• 2035 is the current date for fitting no new gas boilers - realistically that means that there will still be gas boilers on the grid in 2050. The transition time is getting up there with the life of a power station, so the capacity really isn't an issue - and I can't find any Labour policies to change this.
• Electric cars overwhelmingly charge at night when demand is maybe half that during the day anyway. Little or no new capacity needed there.

 

Cant do multiquote.

 

So...

 

Why does a gasification boiler add complexity if im just heating up a very big water tank. Surely it would just have a seperate coil in the tank from all the other clutter? What am i missing?

 

Surely wiring up PV direct to immersion heaters is less efficent than a ASHP? Whilst it certainly has simplicity on its side, id need a much bigger array.

 

My experience of valves in domestic heating systems isnt one of reliability. Useless bloody things. Either seized or piddling out water.

 

You are correct on current government policy on gas boilers. ie, new can no longer be fitted, but you can still use them. Starmer stated that if elected he will phase out all fossil fuel burning by 2030. Thats a very different proposal.

[Radian]

7 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

Starmer stated that if elected he will phase out all fossil fuel burning by 2030. Thats a very different proposal.

 

OK, but he also said that fossil fuels may be used as a "fall back" if it cannot be achieved by the end of the decade. This "fall back" period will be impossible to define unless a fully costed program of street by street housing improvements are in place. It's simply not a realistic proposition.

[Roger440]

21 minutes ago, Radian said:

 

OK, but he also said that fossil fuels may be used as a "fall back" if it cannot be achieved by the end of the decade. This "fall back" period will be impossible to define unless a fully costed program of street by street housing improvements are in place. It's simply not a realistic proposition.

 

I know it not realistic. As do you and anyone with half a brain. So why say it?  However, if you are a gas company, and the PM is spouting this nonsense, would you not revise your plans, investment and maintenance accordingly? Its going to be quite a difficult business to exit without going bust in the process. Where do you even start with winding down an infrastructure system the size and complexity of the gas network.

[pdf27]

30 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

Why does a gasification boiler add complexity if im just heating up a very big water tank. Surely it would just have a seperate coil in the tank from all the other clutter? What am i missing?

 

Surely wiring up PV direct to immersion heaters is less efficent than a ASHP? Whilst it certainly has simplicity on its side, id need a much bigger array.

Gasification boilers themselves are pretty complex - they typically have exhaust extraction fans and oxygen sensors and a control system to ensure accurate gasification. Plumbing a few extra cylinders is a trivial amount of added complexity in comparison to adding a gasification boiler.

As for immersion heaters .vs. ASHP, both are possible - I was suggesting immersions as that's probably cheaper (could be done with second-hand cylinders picked up on eBay) and this looks like the only way it might possibly be feasible is if it's done very cheaply indeed.

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, pdf27 said:

Gasification boilers themselves are pretty complex - they typically have exhaust extraction fans and oxygen sensors and a control system to ensure accurate gasification. Plumbing a few extra cylinders is a trivial amount of added complexity in comparison to adding a gasification boiler.

As for immersion heaters .vs. ASHP, both are possible - I was suggesting immersions as that's probably cheaper (could be done with second-hand cylinders picked up on eBay) and this looks like the only way it might possibly be feasible is if it's done very cheaply indeed.

The exhaust fan is typically only used to light a cold appliance, as once up to incineration temps the process of, then efficient, combustion is self-sustaining. Depends then whether you're a single burn hopper for bi-daily burns or track fed for continuous burn.

Last one I specified / installed ( via a HETAS reg company ) worked very well, feeding a single 2600L Galu buffer tank ( @Roger440 there's no coils mate, the huge amount of heat energy wouldn't allow it so you just fire it in to the whole tank as fast as you produce it ) but this lot took up half of a single car garage! Also, it chewed through a barrow full of seasoned wood per single 'burn', but each burn took that buffer to 85oC and provided space heating for 24 hours in an old, leaky, listed, stone cottage. Ergo, the exhaust fan was needed every day to get the beast moving ( plus the Ladomat setup of course ).

[Marvin]

HI @pdf27

 

Thank you for your work on sand calcs. My results have been similar, however, I am not yet convinced that the idea is dead because of materials now available.

 

I have hourly records of temperature and PV supply and energy use for our home over a year and I am going to calculate the whole thing to try and find out what happens using different sizes and shapes with different thermal resistant materials being used.

 

I will post the full information once completed - probably in February.

 

Regards

M