architect vs. architectural designers

[TryC]

22 hours ago, saveasteading said:

Extra area and volume are usually good value £/m3. Or /m2.

Add 10% volume for 3% cost....that sort of range.

Or in reverse.  Reducing volume by 10% only saves 3%.

This is because it is just a bit more of each operation while already there. Sometimes the labour cost doesn't even change and it is only materials.

 

Depends of course on circumstances, and there are some dimensions at which costs jump. 3m is not such a dimension.

If you want bigger then this is the time to ask, or insist.

 

 

thank you, I had to read that a few times to understand lol

[TryC]

9 hours ago, Adsibob said:

I agree. You do realise there are 8 doors on one floor, yet not that many rooms. Feels like a network of corridors.
 

Can you put the WC under the stairs? Or is there no stairs to a second floor? What are those 5 steps for?

 

I think the presence of the gym complicates things. Have you really thought about what kind of space you need for each of the activities you plan to do in your home and what the priorities should be. For example, couldn’t the gym be in an outhouse? What sort of gym is it? Heavy weights and bench press type thing, yoga retreat or cardio? Or all three? I think there are creative ways to “hide” your gym. For example, I have a classic road bike on an ergo, and because the bike is a thing of beauty, it looks nice in my study. Then I have a tray on wheels that hides under my sofa and in that tray I have elastic therabands of all different tensions, a Matt and a foam roller. Chin up bar in doorway to study, don’t need much else. 

lol, yes, I realise there are 8 doors...that is also the original layout...we have 8 doors currently...it's how the houses were built way back when. All yhe houses around here are like that, but most houses have knocked away the two walls (got rid of their downstairs wc and store room), to make a big kitchen.

 

8 doors, is something you just get used to if you've not opened up the space I've mentioned above.

 

No, the toilet cannot fit underneath the stairs, and the 5 steps are representative of the stairs going upstairs. 

 

Ok, maybe it won't entirely be a gym for all gym purposes, it will at least have a treadmill and I would like a rowing machine and some weights, mat for floor work, pop in a sofa, punch bag, TV ...so maybe we call it another reception room if you will.

 

Before having the idea to do the extension, I was dreaming of having a summerhouse for the gym stuff but research indicates it's like 35k alone, and when the extension came into discussions, it just seems better to integrate within the main house, so I don't need to think about extra electricity,  security for the summerhouse if it something that can be accomdated within the main house with the extension. 

 

I'm re-thinking it and at this point I can look at removing at latest two doors...what do you think of this, does it work better? red sploge indicates sink to be installed. the grey lines are the doors,  yellow arrows to indicated circulation space. 

[TryC]

2 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

I am no architect so please take my thinking with a pinch of salt. It does look a bit 'complicated'. Cannot see why you need the two doors in the corridor to the kitchen, (lounge exit - which would create more functional space in the lounge if removed  & kitchen entrance - which adds nothing other than complexity in my view) - many like open plan living and no doors are a hint at that and would allow a view from the Lounge to the garden.  The kitchen does feel 'pinched' there is no seating / dinning area there so not sure where you intend to put yourselves for eating - unless the run beside the dishwasher is a bar of some sort. So, overall, I think making the extension longer is a big plus.

two doors on the corridor to the kitchen? I only see one door?

 

I'm not a big fan of having it all open plan...thinking travelling sounds, smells etc, from the kitchen or what not. Also, the layout doesn't list the placement of everywhere, TV, sofas tables etc, the dining table/ seating will likely go in the left bottom area of the kitchen/dining area...it just hasnot been drawn on as to not over complicate the drawing i think. Initially, I had to ask the architect to label up some of the drawings because it wasn't clear what it was...so him labeling the velux window was for my benefit.

 

What do you all think is better, velux windows or this? for more natural light in the new extension?

[Kelvin]

We will have 8 internal doors in our entire house. 

[TryC]

3 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

We will have 8 internal doors in our entire house. 

lol!! really!

[Kelvin]

Yep. Just counted them. 😂 

[SteamyTea]

24 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

We will have 8 internal doors in our entire house. 

I have 6 in my tiny 2 bed terrace.

 

[Kelvin]

It would have been 7 but I added another room. Actually it could have been 6 but the other half compromised (she hates doors) by changing a door to a glass door. 
 

We only have one short L shaped corridor in the house off the open plan area and there are three rooms off it so it would have meant 4 doors creating a dark corridor so we removed the door from the open plan area. My original design was two offset dual apex roofed barns joined in the middle with this corridor with a long rooflight. 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Kelvin

[ToughButterCup]

On 28/11/2022 at 23:08, ETC said:

...

I think many posters on this forum need to educate themselves on what an architect is and what an architectural technologist is and what jobs they do and what roles they play in the construction process.

 

I wholeheartedly agree. 

Any professional relationship needs to be based on mutual respect. In my experience professional respect takes ages to develop : and probably also needs to grow through things going wrong.  

 

Joint problem solving shows the quality of any relationship, not just the architect / customer version. This board is replete with posts critical of architects: their prices, their inability to communicate, their arrogance, their aloofness, their  educated artistry. This board on the other hand does not itemise members' inability to listen, members' rudeness, members' lack of Emotional Intelligence, members' own poor problem solving skills.

 

The point I'm making is that this problem has two sides.

 

In any realm , you find out more about your partners when the soft and smelly hits the fan. Always.

 

In our context, there's a simple answer to risk reduction :

Due Diligence.  

 

Ask a prospective architect to talk about things that went wrong with their designs. Ask them what they did when site issues arose : and how those problems were solved. Go and see their designs in real life, not just in the brochure ; talk to their customers. Ask those customers what their architect actually charged.

 

Shameless plug for our architect Sam Edge.  Not perfect as an architect, but I'm not the perfect customer either.

[Adsibob]

2 hours ago, TryC said:

research indicates it's like 35k alone,

 

 

i think that depends on what spec you go for. You could buy a decent bespoke wooden shed for £4k, prepare decent drainage and plastic tray base for the foundations £500, spend £2k insulating and boarding up the inside, another £300 to provide an electric supply, and maybe £500 for a basic MVHR system and maybe another £500 on electric UFH, £400 on flooring and you have a basic garden gym for less than £10k.

2 hours ago, TryC said:

 

 

 

 

 

and when the extension came into discussions, it just seems better to integrate within the main house, so I don't need to think about extra electricity,  security for the summerhouse if it something that can be accomdated within the main house with the extension. 

It’s obviously Your house, and I don’t mean this to sound or be offensive, but the layout you have there is very focused on the gym. The gym has constrained all other spaces in your ground floor and limited your ability to open everything up. Yes, lots of doors and hallways was how they used to build houses, but we are now in 2023 and if you have an opportunity to redo the layout, why not redo it?

Edited January 7, 2023 by Adsibob

[TryC]

35 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

i think that depends on what spec you go for. You could buy a decent bespoke wooden shed for £4k, prepare decent drainage and plastic tray base for the foundations £500, spend £2k insulating and boarding up the inside, another £300 to provide an electric supply, and maybe £500 for a basic MVHR system and maybe another £500 on electric UFH, £400 on flooring and you have a basic garden gym for less than £10k.

It’s obviously Your house, and I don’t mean this to sound or be offensive, but the layout you have there is very focused on the gym. The gym has constrained all other spaces in your ground floor and limited your ability to open everything up. Yes, lots of doors and hallways was how they used to build houses, but we are now in 2023 and if you have an opportunity to redo the layout, why not redo it?

Thanks for the input. maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I do not think my ideal revolves around the gym area...I just need an area for machinery that will not be affected by kitchen cooking smells and greases or what not. Yes, it's 2023 but to me, the number of doors was never an issue...we are opening it up, hence the drawings, I'm moving things and opening some areas up but I'm just not keen on opening the entire ground floor up and not having any privacy...it's like being at work and people having meetings at their desk and, whether talking loudly or nornally...you can hear every word...I don't particularly like attending these meetings when I am not even part of that meeting, even if it is hearing a one sided conversation at that, lol. 

 

Another alternative would be to put the exercise stuff in the left bottom hand corner and have the kitchen diner area on the right (middle right and bottom right), but then it would be darker in the middle right area for the kitchen and dining area, no? and I rather have natural light for the kitchen/dining area versus for the exercise area I think.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by TryC

[SteamyTea]

I don't comment on people house designs (well I did once).

But I get the same endorphin release from sitting down with a coffee, a good book and a Marlboro.

I also get the same health benefits as cold water swimming, from a hot bath.

Just saying

[Adsibob]

2 hours ago, TryC said:

that will not be affected by kitchen cooking smells and greases or what not.

If you get a very high spec extraction fan, with an external motor, and remember to turn it on just before you start cooking, you shouldn’t really have much smells.

 

2 hours ago, TryC said:

I'm just not keen on opening the entire ground floor up and not having any privacy...it's like being at work and people having meetings at their desk and, whether talking loudly or nornally...you can hear every word...I don't particularly like attending these meetings when I am not even part of that meeting

Your front room would still be closed off from the rest of the floor space. If that’s not enough of an anti-dote for you to open plan living, then fair enough. 

Another thing you could consider is knocking down the wall between your front room and the second lounge, erecting a wall made mostly out of glass, and creating your gym area there. This would enable you to position the new wall exactly where you want to achieve the right balance of space, whilst letting light right in. Something like this:

 

 

It is thinner than a wall and doesn’t cost that much more than a new wall. Unless you want to soundproof it better, in which case you t need to higher spec, like double glazing.

 

 The glass can also be opaque or reeded if you want light to come in, but you want privacy.

 

Crittall style glass like this works well in 1920s, 1930s, 1940s and 1950s houses, as it is a modern interpretation of the glazing used often used in those decades.

[patp]

I agree with the comment about not opening up the whole of the ground floor. We did it once in an old Victorian house we renovated and I hated it from the get go. I felt that if I was at one end of the space I should be at the other end and could never feel comfortable. We renovated two more houses and didn't make either of those open plan. Never regretted it.

With this new build everyone assumed we would have the whole kitchen/diner/lounge affair but we have stuck with the kitchen, which is large enough for a table and chairs, together with a more formal dining room and a large lounge. Having lived in it, now, for nine months we are happy with that layout. We still have visitors who say "Ooh - you could knock through from the dining room to the kitchen or the lounge to dining room". Why? When I am relaxing I don't want reminding of food prep/cooking or of a table waiting to be fully cleared etc. Builders, of course, love the open plan layout because it covers a smaller footprint.

[TryC]

14 minutes ago, patp said:

I agree with the comment about not opening up the whole of the ground floor. We did it once in an old Victorian house we renovated and I hated it from the get go. I felt that if I was at one end of the space I should be at the other end and could never feel comfortable. We renovated two more houses and didn't make either of those open plan. Never regretted it.

With this new build everyone assumed we would have the whole kitchen/diner/lounge affair but we have stuck with the kitchen, which is large enough for a table and chairs, together with a more formal dining room and a large lounge. Having lived in it, now, for nine months we are happy with that layout. We still have visitors who say "Ooh - you could knock through from the dining room to the kitchen or the lounge to dining room". Why? When I am relaxing I don't want reminding of food prep/cooking or of a table waiting to be fully cleared etc. Builders, of course, love the open plan layout because it covers a smaller footprint.

ohh this is so good to hear. It also gives me some peace of mind too. I'm not against open plan but I don't think it is for me. I agree, it can look very good and the image included above by the poster previously looks fab too but I'm not wanting it for my home. I'd be worried about keeping the place warm too if it was open plan, if I'm sat in the living room and it was open with my kitchen, I'd have to heat up both areas even if I'm sat at one end. To me, they doesn't seem logical. I'd have to heat up the entire space,  which is double the area and obviously takes longer to heat up and are there heat loss issues, I'm not sure.

 

But thank you for this...I know open space is a trend, but trends don't last and I need to do something I can live with...whether it be 8 doors or not (tho I'm trying to get it down to 6! 😀)

 

 

[TryC]

Hey All,

 

An update and a query if I may! We're now working on 3.6m x6m extension, and the architect we're engaging with advised me that they spoke to a planner at the local council and the planner suggested that we apply for 'Prior Approval for a larger home extension' vs. the 'Householder Planning Approval' - and the architect therefore, recommended the former because a) the planning period is a fortnight less in time and b) it is cheaper.

 

I did ask if he was suggesting this option because he was trying to save me money or perhaps he was just making the assumption that I want to (stereotypes or whatnot)... It's not that I don't want to save money but if the cheaper option would actually end up costing me more in the long run (wrong application from example), I rather just pay for Householder planning approval...but the architect assured me the end result of both applications would be the same, so again he suggested opting for Prior Approval for a larger home extension. 

 

Does anyone have any experience with these two types of applications, please?

[andyj007]

thought I might chip in on this ..  

A company may have 1 architect and 30 architectural  technologists.  but can call themselves an architecural practice. 

a company may have no architect and 30 architectural technologist and call themselves architectural consultants 

the Architect  may be fresh out of college with no real world experiance , clueless on cost delivery , clueless on how things get built in the real world to a budget .   the Architectural technologists may have been drawing and designing houses / projects for 30 years , working along side engineers, construction site personal , and homeowners to deliver projects on time and on budget .  bioth have excatly the same insurance cover for your project,      Who would you rather have working on you project.   oh and both both have teh same cover for  insurance..   im not saying thats the case in all situations,  but to explain how it could pan out  .. both would be capable of undertaking the project , both competent to do so, and both legally able. .

 

 

r

andy

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by andyj007

[ETC]

On 28/02/2023 at 07:21, andyj007 said:

thought I might chip in on this ..  

A company may have 1 architect and 30 architectural  technologists.  but can call themselves an architecural practice. 

a company may have no architect and 30 architectural technologist and call themselves architectural consultants 

the Architect  may be fresh out of college with no real world experiance , clueless on cost delivery , clueless on how things get built in the real world to a budget .   the Architectural technologists may have been drawing and designing houses / projects for 30 years , working along side engineers, construction site personal , and homeowners to deliver projects on time and on budget .  bioth have excatly the same insurance cover for your project,      Who would you rather have working on you project.   oh and both both have teh same cover for  insurance..   im not saying thats the case in all situations,  but to explain how it could pan out  .. both would be capable of undertaking the project , both competent to do so, and both legally able. .

 

 

r

andy

 

 

 

It always amuses me to read posts like this - the old chestnut about architects and architectural consultants - and architects getting a hammering yet again! 
 

Try reversing the argument with the architect with 30 years of experience and the architectural technician fresh out of college doing a few “homers” in his bedroom at night knocking out a plan for a couple of hundred quid and most likely without PII. I know who I’d rather employ.

 

Had a conversation with a colleague recently who employed his friend - an “architectural consultant” to help him do the plans and engage a builder. Completely forgot about CDM and  a suitable contract and has now turned off his phone. Great friend.

 

Give me a break!!!

[andyj007]

Appologies the the  point  was trying to put across that just because someone has a title  qulification does not mean they are better   at their job,, real world experiance  matters and wins above all else IMO,,   and obviously  can apply to both titles .   

 

break given  

[jon-lee]

On 28/11/2022 at 15:34, TryC said:

Hey All,

 

So I thought I had a quote from an architect for a rear-end extension, but upon further research, it turns out they are architectural designers. (I was given their details which was recommended when asked about architects).

 

Is it OK to use architectural designers or is it best to engage with an architect?

if im correct, to be classed as an Architect you need to be recognised by RIBA?? those who are not would be classed as Architectural technologists, technicians or draughtsperson with at least a recognised level of qualification. A competent technician or draughtsperson is all you need depending on how extravagant your build is.   

[ETC]

3 hours ago, jon-lee said:

if im correct, to be classed as an Architect you need to be recognised by RIBA?? Nope. Not correct.

those who are not would be classed as Architectural technologists, technicians or draughtsperson with at least a recognised level of qualification. A competent technician or draughtsperson is all you need depending on how extravagant your build is. Yep. Correct. 

 

[saveasteading]

3 hours ago, jon-lee said:

recognised by RIBA??

No, although that is the main route towards it. The ARB is the registration body.

With ARB registration an Architect can use that word with a capital. Without it they must use a different term and no capital.

Sometimes people conceal this but can get in big trouble.

 

There are plenty of Architects who don't think it is their job to design  to keep the rain out or get building regs.

There are technicians who can design with style.    Check them all out.

[SteamyTea]

22 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Without it they must use a different term and no capital.

How about at the beginning of a sentence.

 

Joules is energy is correct

Energy is measured in Joules is incorrect.

[Kelvin]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

No, although that is the main route towards it. The ARB is the registration body.

With ARB registration an Architect can use that word with a capital. Without it they must use a different term and no capital.

Sometimes people conceal this but can get in big trouble.

 

There are plenty of Architects who don't think it is their job to design  to keep the rain out or get building regs.

There are technicians who can design with style.    Check them all out.

And there are ARB registered architect firms that can’t send you a single document that doesn’t have an error in it, well other than the contract and the invoices. 

[saveasteading]

To RIBA credit,  I supervised a final professional  exam over 2 full days, so got to look at the question papers.

 

There was a lot of heavy stuff about contract administration, dispute resolution, finances, VAT, and real life that I hadn't expected to see.

I wish I knew the pass mark.

The maths and ethics parts were really easy...if you're good at sums, and know fair from unfair, but I think would catch a lot out.....sorry Architects it's just not what inspired most to study the subject.