ruggers Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 I'm just calculating how much timber is required for non load bearing stud walls with 2.4m ceilings and wanted to know, what are the horizontal spacings between the vertical studs. 400 or 600mm? I'm probably going to use 4x2" timbers unless 3x2" is enough. Whats the spacing for any horizontal noggins required, every 600 or every 1200mm? First first floor I have to screw some form of plywood or OSB onto one side of the stud walls for lateral support to the building if this affect the requirement for any noggins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 600 are fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruggers Posted November 20, 2022 Author Share Posted November 20, 2022 Is that 600mm for both spacings? 600 for the gaps between each vertical stud and just one horizontal run of noggins through the middle 1.2m up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 Yes 600 vertically Nogs at 1150 and 1200 to make them easy to nail 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 Just to clarify. 600mm is the centre to centre of the studs NOT the gap between them. Imagine putting a sheet of plasterboard up that is 1200wide if your gaps were 600 the plasterboard would not reach the next stud. But also look at plywood sizes, this is usually 8 foot by 4 foot, so that throws you out as well. Get your materials and do a layout on the floor to see if you need to jiggle stud spacing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 18 hours ago, ruggers said: I have to screw some form of plywood or OSB onto one side of the stud walls for lateral support This is structural design territory. Your drawings should therefore also specify the stud sizes, and even the fixings. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruggers Posted November 21, 2022 Author Share Posted November 21, 2022 4 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: Just to clarify. 600mm is the centre to centre of the studs NOT the gap between them. Imagine putting a sheet of plasterboard up that is 1200wide if your gaps were 600 the plasterboard would not reach the next stud. Yeah I'm aware of this, it's a while since I've fit any sheets and will check sizes sure everything 2400x1200 now but some used to be 2440 x 1220mm 16 minutes ago, saveasteading said: This is structural design territory. Your drawings should therefore also specify the stud sizes, and even the fixings. Your correct, I didn't read the small print on a recent separate structural detail provided by someone else 🤪 It's 400 c/c with 600 vertical noggins including 12mm plyboard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 Screw or nail spec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruggers Posted November 21, 2022 Author Share Posted November 21, 2022 3 hours ago, saveasteading said: Screw or nail spec? The 12mm ply face is to be screwed but the studs it doesn't specify so I'd have thought either. It's for lateral stability to the building not vertical support. Fixings to the masonry walls every 300mm vertical centres via M10 resin chemical anchors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 300 centres sounds right for lateral stability, as it is to stop the studs domino-ing from a sideways force. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruggers Posted November 21, 2022 Author Share Posted November 21, 2022 Studs at 400 lateral centres, noggins at 600 vertical centres with the vertical timbers attached to masonry walls every 300mm via chemical anchors. Movement joints & outer leaf expansion joints to line up with key areas of where the stud walls are. Walls ties every 225mm around door and window reveals including the expansion joints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Sheathing to stud: 3.1mm x 50mm nails at 150 centres acc to the guide for small buildings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruggers Posted November 22, 2022 Author Share Posted November 22, 2022 It's just what the structural engineers report said, to screw them. Screws are usually bette than nails but much slower. Chemical anchors seems a bit over the top and m10 rawls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 On 20/11/2022 at 19:17, ruggers said: 'm just calculating how much timber is required for non load bearing stud walls with 2.4m ceilings ........... First first floor I have to screw some form of plywood or OSB onto one side of the stud walls for lateral support to the building if this affect the requirement for any noggins. The two bits in bold seem to contradict each other. either these are load bearing or they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruggers Posted November 22, 2022 Author Share Posted November 22, 2022 33 minutes ago, ProDave said: The two bits in bold seem to contradict each other. either these are load bearing or they are not. They don't, lateral support isn't vertical loading. They are stud walls are to be faced with ply to help prevent the upper elevation walls from falling inwards under high winds over time, they are required because my ground floor load bearing walls don't continue up into the first floor. The Joists are supported on the ground floor load bearing walls and the roof trusses support themselves over the span. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Potter Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, ruggers said: They don't, lateral support isn't vertical loading. Unfortunately it often partly ends up that way, a non load bearing racking wall can catch you out. Advise you stick with your SE's specification. In written form you have a timber frame panel that carries no vertical load but it needs to stop things moving sideways. Say the top of the panel is loaded horizontally. This horizontal force gets transferred to say the floor below that resists the horizontal force. Now you have two forces acting in equal an opposite directions but they are separated vertically. This introduces an overturning effect into the panel. We call this a complimentary shear force. The static laws of physics say that for a body to remain still every force has to have an equal an opposite force. Thus even though your panel is not carrying a vertical load.. only a wind load the vertical fixings at on side will be subject to uplift and at the other side a downwards force. That is why you may wonder why your SE has come up with what may seem an onerous spec. 3 hours ago, ruggers said: Chemical anchors seems a bit over the top and m10 rawls. Edited November 23, 2022 by Gus Potter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruggers Posted November 25, 2022 Author Share Posted November 25, 2022 On 23/11/2022 at 00:51, Gus Potter said: So the Chemical anchors are also for shear strength in vertical loads where as normal masonry screws or screws and plugs could loosen or bend essentially? There would need to be a lot of direct win load and wall movement to move the block work and timber frame though to band screws? The posi webbed joists under each stud wall are designed with noggins so look like a ladder under the 22mm floor decking. On 23/11/2022 at 00:51, Gus Potter said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 some osb is not metric so wont work 400/600 centres. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruggers Posted November 26, 2022 Author Share Posted November 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Dave Jones said: some osb is not metric so wont work 400/600 centres. 407mm centres probably won't collapse the house if it's 1220mm sheets. Probably more important to see if it has to be ply or OSB or either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 you also dont want 400 centres if your planning on using sheet insulation that is cut between the studs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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