Garage construction. Stick build or blockwork?

[Russdl]

The future garage/workshop so far...

 

I've decided on:

 

• Geocell foundation and a reinforced concrete raft.
• Flat roof supported by UB steels.
• External render finish to match the house.

 

Next on my list of decisions is the walls.

 

Plan A: Stick build on site (I can probably do the vast majority of that).

 

Plan B: Block work walls (I can probably do about none of that).

 

The garage will be irregular in shape to get the most out of the space available (trapezoidal is a word I've not used in decades that doesn't exactly spring to mind?) dimensions below. It will be within 1m of the boundary on three sides.

 

Questions, questions, but I'll start with:

 

Are there good reasons why I should choose stick build over blockwork or blockwork over stick build?

 

[joe90]

36 minutes ago, Russdl said:

Plan A: Stick build on site (I can probably do the vast majority of that).

Timber is still expensive vs blockwork but if you can do most then labour cost will be lower

36 minutes ago, Russdl said:

Plan B: Block work walls (I can probably do about none of that).

My workshop is block because I wanted to hang lots of stuff on walls and didn’t want to have to find studs to do it and easy to render to, you could always labour for the block layer, mixing, moving blocks etc and reduce your labour costs, 

36 minutes ago, Russdl said:

External render finish to match the house.

Render on blockwork has got to be easier/cheaper than on a stick frame, timber moves and I would be concerned with how you mitigate that with a stick frame and what would you would use to clad the frame to render on? And the additional cost of that 🤔

Edited November 16, 2022 by joe90

[PeterW]

You’ll need BRegs for that anyway so I would be going the route of what the BCO wants. By supporting the roof with UBs, do you mean steel span and infill or something else..? If you’re using steel for joists you may well use it for uprights then just drop blockwork in the gaps too.

 

Timber is easier to insulate as you don’t need a dual skin although I would consider EWI as the carrier for the render and get best of both worlds. 
 

Not sure why you would need Geocel for the foundations ..? And just use fibre in the raft for reinforcement at 150mm as its going nowhere. 

[Russdl]

51 minutes ago, joe90 said:

My workshop is block because I wanted to hang lots of stuff on walls and didn’t want to have to find studs

 

That's a plus for block for sure.

 

55 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Render on blockwork has got to be easier/cheaper than on a stick frame

 

Indeed, but I want the garage insulated so if I went block then I'd go EWI and render that adding complexity/costs.

 

56 minutes ago, joe90 said:

with a stick frame and what would you would use to clad the frame to render on?

 

On the house its batten/counter batten, render board, silicone render. No issues so far but added complexity and costs, apart from the render I can do all the rest.

 

45 minutes ago, PeterW said:

You’ll need BRegs for that anyway so I would be going the route of what the BCO wants.

 

I will need building regs but I reckon I can choose my method.

 

Blockwork would easily please them but they're au-fait with timber frame as well, they oversaw the house construction. The timber frame house has an elevation 1m from a field so we had several modifications to that elevation to satisfy the fire regs.

 

44 minutes ago, PeterW said:

By supporting the roof with UBs, do you mean steel span and infill or something else..?

 

Yes, steels spanning, timber joists, warm roof.

 

50 minutes ago, PeterW said:

If you’re using steel for joists you may well use it for uprights then just drop blockwork in the gaps too

 

Now that's a good point. I presume then I wouldn't need piers along the the two >8m walls? piers would be getting in the way of the side opening sectional door.

 

55 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Not sure why you would need Geocel for the foundations ..?

 

Insulation and ease of use.

 

56 minutes ago, PeterW said:

And just use fibre in the raft for reinforcement at 150mm as its going nowhere. 

 

By that you mean no re-bar?

 

[gaz_moose]

you could just buy 20 blocks and some sand/cement and have a go at building walls/ corners to see if you think you can actually do it yourself. that is if you actually want to 😆

 

are you planning on doing the slab yourself?

[joe90]

I am not normally into social media but put it out there you have a small blockwork project and see if you get any response, might suit a retired person that wants to earn some beer money, and you labour for him?

[Russdl]

44 minutes ago, gaz_moose said:

to see if you think you can actually do it yourself. that is if you actually want to 😆

 

No. That would turn into a running goat...

 

45 minutes ago, gaz_moose said:

are you planning on doing the slab yourself?

 

The Geocell, yes.

 

12 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I am not normally into social media

 

I'm not even vaguely into social media, but it's not a bad idea at all @joe90and there are alternative social networks (the pub springs to mind).

[Russdl]

So, if I find a retired bricky who's up for it I can labour for him whilst he builds me a fantastic block wall which will be external insulated and rendered and probably just painted on the inside.

 

But what blocks should I use? There seems to be quite a choice.

[BenP]

Timber Frame - would have to be OSB sheathed anyway - put this on the inside layer for hanging things etc. Would also be easier to get a decent level of insulation too. 140mm flexible batt between 600 c/c studs. Simple. 

 

I think this is the route I'm going. Unless I decide to teach myself some brickwork. Generally prefer dry trades though!!! 

[PeterW]

15 minutes ago, BenP said:

Timber Frame - would have to be OSB sheathed anyway - put this on the inside layer for hanging things etc. Would also be easier to get a decent level of insulation too. 140mm flexible batt between 600 c/c studs. Simple. 

But within 1m of the boundary needs significant fireproofing which negates all the benefits. That’s the problem with this sort of project.

 

1 hour ago, Russdl said:

So, if I find a retired bricky who's up for it I can labour for him whilst he builds me a fantastic block wall which will be external insulated and rendered and probably just painted on the inside.

 

But what blocks should I use? There seems to be quite a choice.

 

Standard 100mm medium weight blocks - cheapest you can find - and infill between steel frame (ie inside the webs) and then insulate the lot externally. You could use paint grade blocks but tbh they aren’t worth it.

[Adrian Walker]

1 hour ago, Russdl said:

So, if I find a retired bricky who's up for it I can labour for him whilst he builds me a fantastic block wall which will be external insulated and rendered and probably just painted on the inside.

 

But what blocks should I use? There seems to be quite a choice.

 

What are you planning to use the garage for?  As a garage, storage, workshop or turn part of into an annexe later?

 

 

[Russdl]

@BenP stick build was always top of my list, mainly because I think I could do it all. The concerns were the fire regs affecting three elevations. The >8m walls without any partition walls adding strength. If I pushed hard enough would they fall over? (I don't know if that is a real or imaginary worry?)

 

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

Standard 100mm medium weight blocks - cheapest you can find - and infill between steel frame

 

So the block option looks like I get a couple of 'goal post' steels made up, medium weight blocks between them (and no piers on the two long walls), EWI on the outside and I'm home and dry.

 

@Adrian Walker yep, just garage/workshop etc. No plans to annex it later.

 

[markc]

8m walls are no problem with staggered joints on top and Sill plates. Temporary prop if it’s really windy until you get a central truss or joist in to brace against.

Edited November 16, 2022 by markc

[Russdl]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

You could use paint grade blocks but tbh they aren’t worth it.

 

There really are loads out there! I didn't realise there was a specific one if you were going to paint it.

[Russdl]

1 minute ago, markc said:

8m walls are no problem with staggered joints on top and Sill plates. Temporary prop if it’s really windy until you get a central truss or joist in to brace against.

 

Thanks for that - so it was an imaginary worry. 👍 

[markc]

8 minutes ago, Russdl said:

 

Thanks for that - so it was an imaginary worry. 👍 

Not really, if you were framing it all with 3x2 then it would be incredibly flimsy and fragile, but a decent framed wall with tight joints is surprisingly stiff and once you have some plan bracing in they will stand up to knocks are high winds

[BenP]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

But within 1m of the boundary needs significant fireproofing which negates all the benefits. That’s the problem with this sort of project.

 

Good shout - thinking selfishly here with a garage away from the boundary and sneaking under the size that requires Building regs!

[joe90]

39 minutes ago, markc said:

Temporary prop if it’s really windy

Our western wall of block on the house blew over two nights in a row in the winter, Mortor is green fir a day or so, my builder had to prop the new walls for a few days till it cured. Just saying!!!

[Russdl]

2 minutes ago, joe90 said:

Our western wall of block on the house blew over two nights in a row in the winter

 

Excellent! Something for me to worry about if I choose block 😂 (I think I will...) I was getting worried that I couldn't think of much to worry about.

[joe90]

Just now, Russdl said:

couldn't think of much to worry about.

We are in a Windy location near the Atlantic and it was the upper story but some don’t realise Mortor is “green” fir longer than some think.

[rich1899]

Do you have planning permission in place? I see that you proposed build is over 53m2

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by rich1899

[Russell griffiths]

Reading all this it looks like a project for icf blocks. 

Can be self built, no additional help needed. 

One concrete pour so reasonable pump costs. 

Render outside, no problem. 

Clad the inside in 18mm osb and paint. 

[saveasteading]

On 16/11/2022 at 15:04, PeterW said:

within 1m of the boundary needs significant fireproofing

Noticed this late.

It depends in the field. If 'unlikely to be developed' then it doesn't need protection. Might need justification such as green belt / aonb.

 

My favourite, for what it is worth, esp if you can DIY it,  is timber...it always fits. Unless having a heavy roof, when use masonry.

[Russdl]

6 hours ago, rich1899 said:

 

Do you have planning permission in place? I see that you proposed build is over 53m2

 

No. I plan on doing it under Permitted Development. Have I missed something vital?
 

From all I’ve read I don’t see that I need planning for the proposed garage. 

[Russdl]

4 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

Reading all this it looks like a project for icf blocks. 

That would probably work but was never on my radar so has not been considered. The plan is now block built, with rendered EWI outside.