YALANCT (Yet Another Loxone And Network Cabling Thread)

[Thorfun]

9 hours ago, NBW said:

Hi all

I am about to pull a trigger for a LXN5-D from Future Automation

Certainly not the cheapest but seems like its the best on the market.  Annoyingly Future Automation only del with the trade.  Any recommendations on where i can purchase a cab from?

 

Thanks

Nick

Just make sure you only need the 5! I wish I’d gone for the 6 now as things take more space than you think. Plus I’m rubbish at planning stuff. 🤦‍♂️

[NBW]

My Affinity Designer 2 trial has expired so now need to work out how i can get another shot at it to ensure i a have enough space.  I am now considering if i have enough space.  Current equipment list is:
House

4 x Relay Extension

2 x Dimmer Extension

5 x RGBW 24V Dimmer Tree SPOTS

3 x RGBW 24V Dimmer Tree LED Strips

1 x Tree Extension

1 x MiniServer

1 x 1-Wire Extension

1 x AO Extension

1 x Audio Server

1 x Loxone Power and Backup

 

 

The shed will house

1 x Relay Extension

1 x PSU 1 x nano DI

[Thorfun]

5 minutes ago, NBW said:

My Affinity Designer 2 trial has expired so now need to work out how i can get another shot at it to ensure i a have enough space.  I am now considering if i have enough space.  Current equipment list is:
House

4 x Relay Extension

2 x Dimmer Extension

5 x RGBW 24V Dimmer Tree SPOTS

3 x RGBW 24V Dimmer Tree LED Strips

1 x Tree Extension

1 x MiniServer

1 x 1-Wire Extension

1 x AO Extension

1 x Audio Server

1 x Loxone Power and Backup

 

 

The shed will house

1 x Relay Extension

1 x PSU 1 x nano DI

i drew mine out on a spreadsheet (in this thread somewhere i think!)

 

also, that's a lot of Loxone dimmers and relays which are expensive. have you had a look at Whitewing? you'd need a DMX extension though.

 

plus the Loxone tree LED strips are expensive compared to others in my opinion. i used a Whitewing device and normal led strips.

 

but i do understand keeping it all under one roof so feel free to ignore me!

[jack]

3 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

have you had a look at Whitewing? you'd need a DMX extension though.

 

+1 for Whitewing over Loxone mains dimmers.

 

Also, the DMX extension is useful for other things. DMX relays are cheap. You can buy multi-channel, DMX-controlled, DIN-rail-mountable relay units for a fraction of the cost of the Loxone equivalent.

 

Alternatively (or in addition), you can put indivudal relays or multi-relay boards closer to where they're needed and control them via DMX.

 

In a larger installation you need to consider signal cable length and topology, but other than that, imo DMX is a robust solution to a lot of problems.

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, jack said:

 

+1 for Whitewing over Loxone mains dimmers.

 

Also, the DMX extension is useful for other things. DMX relays are cheap. You can buy multi-channel, DMX-controlled, DIN-rail-mountable relay units for a fraction of the cost of the Loxone equivalent.

 

Alternatively (or in addition), you can put indivudal relays or multi-relay boards closer to where they're needed and control them via DMX.

 

In a larger installation you need to consider signal cable length and topology, but other than that, imo DMX is a robust solution to a lot of problems.

he also does DMX relays now as well. if i need more relays i think i'm definitely going to use Whitewing over buying new Loxone relays.

[jack]

4 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

he also does DMX relays now as well. if i need more relays i think i'm definitely going to use Whitewing over buying new Loxone relays.

 

I spotted that when I recently went to check whether he did smaller dimmers (eg, 2 to 4 channel) to handle some significant changes we're making to our kitchen lighting.

 

The Whitewing mains dimmer I've been running for the last few years dims even better than the more expensive Thormann KNX dimmer I used for the other half of the house. 

[NBW]

Interesting, i have not seen Whitewing before.  

What are peoples reviews on Whitewing DMX dimmers over the very expensive Loxone Extensions? 
I have time to switch over.

 

I have read some issues with the Loxone Dimmer and dimming LED's.  Has anyone had this issue.  Assuming no one has had issues with Whitewing DMX controls?

 

Thanks

Nick

Edited yesterday at 13:56 by NBW

[Thorfun]

4 minutes ago, NBW said:

Interesting, i have not seen Whitewing before.  

What are peoples reviews on Whitewing DMX dimmers over the very expensive Loxone Extensions? 
I have time to switch over

 

Thanks

Nick

i have a Whitewing mains dimmer (https://www.whitewing.co.uk/acdim.html) and 24v RGBW dimmer (https://www.whitewing.co.uk/rgbdim48.html) and think they're both great. and sooooo much cheaper even when factoring in the DMX extension. and if you swapped out some or all of your Loxone relays for Whitewing ones (https://www.whitewing.co.uk/dmxrelay.html) you'd save a small fortune!

 

i see now he does a small 4 channel LED driver for £18+VAT each! https://www.whitewing.co.uk/tinydmx.html . should be able to replace those expensive Loxone ones (https://shop.loxone.com/enuk/product/100325-rgbw-24v-compact-dimmer-tree) at £78+VAT each!

 

i have more lighting to do in the basement and i think i've found my new LED drivers. 

 

[Thorfun]

i do have to say though that the Loxone stuff looks really nice in the cabinet lined up. but it was a high price to pay to satisfy my OCD. 🤣

[NBW]

Thanks for the reply.  Interestingly

So i save over £1500 moving to WhiteWing Relays and Dimmer control form Loxone

Name

Cost

1st Floor Inputs

Ground Floor Inputs

Shed

Total Inputs

Device Inputs

Total

Total Cost

Relay Extension	396.636	28	10	8	46	14		4	1189.908
Dimmer Extension	542.364	5	0		5	4		2	1084.728

RGBW 24V Dimmer Tree SPOTS

93.768

12

7

19

4

5

468.84

 

	Cost	With VAT		Total Inputs	Total Devices	Cost
16 Channel DMX relay controller RLY16-D	175	210		35	3	630
16- channel DMX AC LED dimmers DIM8-ACL	375	450		8	1	450
					Total	1080

 

 

I would then need to buy the DMX extension @£350

 

I havent looked at DMX before.  Reading up its a very well established protocol.  Other than cost, i can see cab space being. big saver as well. Are there benefits to using Loxone over WhiteWing?  

 

Thanks for the help everyone.   

 

[Thorfun]

1 minute ago, NBW said:

Thanks for the reply.  Interestingly

So i save over £1500 moving to WhiteWing Relays and Dimmer control form Loxone

 

Name

Cost

1st Floor Inputs

Ground Floor Inputs

Shed

Total Inputs

Device Inputs

Total

Total Cost

 

Relay Extension	396.636	28	10	8	46	14		4	1189.908
Dimmer Extension	542.364	5	0		5	4		2	1084.728

 

RGBW 24V Dimmer Tree SPOTS

93.768

12

7

19

4

5

468.84

 

 

	Cost	With VAT		Total Inputs	Total Devices	Cost
16 Channel DMX relay controller RLY16-D	175	210		35	3	630
16- channel DMX AC LED dimmers DIM8-ACL	375	450		8	1	450
					Total	1080

 

 

I would then need to buy the DMX extension @£350

 

I havent looked at DMX before.  Reading up its a very well established protocol.  Other than cost, i can see cab space being. big saver as well. Are there benefits to using Loxone over WhiteWing?  

 

Thanks for the help everyone.   

 

just be careful disregarding the Loxone RGBW spots as i found it very hard to find non-loxone RGBW spots much cheaper and so i actually used the Loxone ones for them in one room. so don't discount ALL loxone stuff. 😉 

 

2 minutes ago, NBW said:

Are there benefits to using Loxone over WhiteWing?

not sure on the answer to this one although i guess the obvious answer is using the tree bus. in the one room where i have the RGBW spots from Loxone controlling them was a simple 1.5mm T&E radial for power and a single Cat6a cable. using Whitewing for that would've meant using up more "space" in the cab or using drivers closer to the spots? 

 

maybe another benefit is the simplicity of the tree bus and the hardware just works. i'm not saying that DMX controlled controllers are a pain but there's a few extra hoops to go through setting up the channel numbers etc.

 

Mike from Whitewing is very responsive to questions and i've got nothing but good things to say about the customer support and you can see earlier in this thread where i was trying to figure out how the RGBW led dimmer would work and a few back and forths with Mike and i got all the information i wanted.

i've not had to speak to Loxone so i can't comment on their customer support.

 

i fully understand the anxiety of diverging from the Loxone equipment as there's the voice in the back of your head saying "What if". but i've been very happy with Whitewing equipment and just wish he'd done relays when i was purchasing as i'd have definitely used them.

[Rob99]

46 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

i see now he does a small 4 channel LED driver for £18+VAT each! https://www.whitewing.co.uk/tinydmx.html 

@Thorfun good spot this 👍

Just had a look at the specs. As with Mike's other products it's well thought out and designed.

Similar max power throughput (8A) as Loxone but higher single channel at 3A (instead of Loxone's 2A) but the biggest difference is the PWM rate. Loxone is 123Hz which is quite low and some people can sometimes detect a hint of flicker, also very noticeable if you've ever taken a video on your phone with the lights on. White wing is 750Hz which is massively different and no chance of any unwanted effects.