Plumbing quote

[willraymond]

Good morning,

 

Been given a quote by a plumber who I’ve got on with throughout the early stages of our build and like the look of his work on instagram however… I’ve just been given a quote which is roughly in the ball park however when I asked for a breakdown of the quote he says he doesn’t supply broken down quotes. Is that normal? 

I’ve got mixed feelings now

[nod]

If your happy with the amount and it cover ALL the work You should be fine 

Many of The one man bands do this as they simply don’t have enough hours in the day 

[Temp]

What sort of brief did you give him to quote against? 

 

If that has everything well specified then you can "accept the attached quote on the basis of the attached Request for Quote" keep copy yourself.

 

Otherwise perhaps see if he will visit and talk you over what he proposes as you walk around. Write notes so you can confirm with him before accepting the quote. 

 

It's also worth trying to see a job he's done before or is currently on. The one thing that bugs me is the way some plumbers just throw the pipes in at all angles and just "make it work" rather than having neat well planned pipe runs.

[Nickfromwales]

13 hours ago, willraymond said:

Good morning,

 

Been given a quote by a plumber who I’ve got on with throughout the early stages of our build and like the look of his work on instagram however… I’ve just been given a quote which is roughly in the ball park however when I asked for a breakdown of the quote he says he doesn’t supply broken down quotes. Is that normal? 

I’ve got mixed feelings now

Absolutely stinks to high heaven to me.

ANY person so proud of their work that they would post it online, and brag about it, should be equally willing to engage both comprehensively and transparently.

One option is he’s using smoke and mirrors… The other option is, that he is not much good with admin and the ‘back-end’ of the business.

If, please tell me its for some other reason than just a glossy website, you want to work with this person, then the rope is around your neck not theirs.

To protect yourself, as above, get a list of everything that needs doing, send a breakdown to him, get him to agree IN WRITING AND NOT OVER THE PHONE, and go forwards from there.

 

If he then doesn’t fulfil every promise, only with the above diligence done would you have recourse for legal action.

 

I’m working in Leicester atm with a client who’s general builder is wriggling off the hook for around £40k, and through legal loopholes he may walk Scot free, even though his work has since been inspected by BCO and has all failed with comments such as “this is the worst work I’ve seen in my career”.

 

Forget all the glossy photos, get it all in writing or go somewhere else. End of.  

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Nickfromwales

[Nickfromwales]

Only a prick would find that funny. Says it all……….

[TonyT]

We used to keep it short and accept work as per drawing number Rev 2 dated ………

So issue a drawing with a drawing number and get the quote

accepted that way with a specification on materials and workmanship

 

always best to have a discussion first, saves an argument later.

[Nickfromwales]

Just now, TonyT said:

 

always best to have a discussion first, saves an argument later.

Yes indeed. I discussed a lot with a client previously, and both he and his wife smiled and nodded at all my suggestions, allowed me to carry out additional extra work on good faith, and then refused to pay for it.

One bottom-dwelling fcuktard even resorted to lying about a family friend dying of cancer to get the last £1100 worth of good will out of me.

Some people are lower to the ground than a slugs ball-sack.

[Nickfromwales]

Not laughing now?

[TonyT]

7 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Yes indeed. I discussed a lot with a client previously, and both he and his wife smiled and nodded at all my suggestions, allowed me to carry out additional extra work on good faith, and then refused to pay for it.

One bottom-dwelling fcuktard even resorted to lying about a family friend dying of cancer to get the last £1100 worth of good will out of me.

Some people are lower to the ground than a slugs ball-sack.

 Now days it’s progress meetings followed by technical meetings all minuted.

so every arse covering move is done by email to ensure rectus protectus 

All conversations turned into file notes and email over to design team and main contractor.

 

Drawings downloaded and uploaded on some portal that you can see who does what and when.

 

god it was easy when all I had to do was print out a fax transmission report and staple it to the fax  drawing you just drew out and file it a box folder…..

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

13 minutes ago, TonyT said:

 Now days it’s progress meetings followed by technical meetings all minuted.

so every arse covering move is done by email to ensure rectus protectus 

All conversations turned into file notes and email over to design team and main contractor.

 

Drawings downloaded and uploaded on some portal that you can see who does what and when.

 

god it was easy when all I had to do was print out a fax transmission report and staple it to the fax  drawing you just drew out and file it a box folder…..

 

 

Indeed.

And the aforementioned case is mostly my fault. The alarm bells should have started ringing when I realised this guys wife was scared of him.

Clients are as bad as companies, and you ( and I ) should NEVER go on faith alone.

It’s a sad world we live in, where someone’s word means, absolutely, the square root of fcuk all.

The only upside from these experiences is, that my business now functions with sufficient defence mechanisms that I cannot ever fall fowl of the first 2 bags of shit that I unfortunately ended up working ‘for’.

 

The best information available on this forum is to follow the correct avenues and stick to them like Velcro. It’s a very nice thing to have a good rapport, but the devil is in the detail, and that detail being in writing. 

 

There are no friends in business, and I’ve learned that the very hard way  

Edited October 6, 2022 by Nickfromwales

[PeterW]

Echoing this - we would never work without a spec, and a bill of materials is standard to that anyway. You can’t price without it, unless you’re going on gut feel and he doesn’t know what’s going to crop up and you will not know if it’s £5 or £500 more in bits.

 

instagram is subjective as they take photos of the bits that go well - I can spend an hour doing some perfect joints on a nice background with munsen rings and polished copper but if it’s not connected to anything then it’s mildly useless … Ask to see the client - I’m assuming he must have asked before he posted it all over the internet so shouldn’t be an issue.

[Russdl]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

lying about a family friend dying of cancer to get the last £1100 worth of good will out of me.

What a coincidence!
 

We had a friend dying of cancer (short notice, swift departure) who’s long dead now. 
 

We didn’t owe anything though. The individual we were dealing with owes us close to £5000 (CCJ) which is unpaid 
 

CCJ’s can be checked on line for £6

 

and I’d recommend searching that site before employing anyone. 

[Nickfromwales]

27 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Echoing this

instagram is subjective as they take photos of the bits that go well - I can spend an hour doing some perfect joints on a nice background with munsen rings and polished copper but if it’s not connected to anything then it’s mildly useless … Ask to see the client - I’m assuming he must have asked before he posted it all over the internet so shouldn’t be an issue.

The entire reason that my business doesn’t need a website. People can meet me, do they or OWN DILIGENCE, and decide if they wish to do business with me or not.

A very simple mechanism, agreed, but followed up by my insistence, then, of a robust and written contractual agreement where both parties understand what is to be given / expected. 

it’s regrettable that I had to take money from my bank account and put it into someone else’s property without reward, or even thanks, less their endless pursuit of smug happiness. 

The joys of owning a business based on the hope of sincerity.

[Russdl]

Bit it’s still worth doing this:

 

Check CCJ

 

Is it not? 

[Nickfromwales]

3 minutes ago, Russdl said:

What a coincidence!
 

We had a friend dying of cancer (short notice, swift departure) who’s long dead now. 
 

We didn’t owe anything though. The individual we were dealing with owes us close to £5000 (CCJ) which is unpaid 
 

CCJ’s can be checked on line for £6

 

and I’d recommend searching that site before employing anyone. 

Indeed.

The sediment-sucking  (expletive deleted)tard I worked for on promise of payment owes me over £10k. £1100 for works unpaid for, for lighting in his kitchen, changing power feeds to the unannounced changes to the ovens, and more.

The biggest piss-me-off we was the fact he moaned like a little bitch about me not coming to do X,Y & Z, and then, when I employed a second trade to come and do these things, he BEGGED me to deviate, which I contested, to do the extras in the kitchen diner.

Then NEVER FCUKING PAID ME!!!!

 

No matter HOW much this bead of sweat from the base of my balls, tries to justify the way he SHIT all over me, he will NEVER  be half the person I am.

[Nickfromwales]

2 minutes ago, Russdl said:

Bit it’s still worth doing this:

 

Check CCJ

 

Is it not? 

Only if that is your only defence…….. Those who wriggle off the hook are not worth catching. Go clean the slime off your windows. 

[Nickfromwales]

28 minutes ago, Russdl said:

and I’d recommend searching that site before employing anyone

It’s a shame that site doesn’t list lying scumbag customers.

I wonder if any self employed members here have had issues with non-paying customers. May not be an isolated instance.

The worst ones are those who think their in the right, in the wake of people with families to provide for, that have not paid what is due, with witnesses, and who have manipulated the “system” to their benefit when the people they should have paid were most vulnerable..,.,

These people disgust me. The lowest vermin of society. 

[Nickfromwales]

And now…something completely different….

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

Just watch it. You’ll feel better. Trust me. 

[Dreadnaught]

23 hours ago, willraymond said:

Is that normal?

 

In my experience its about 50:50. And to my surprise it is not only the smaller contractors/suppliers who will not provide a breakdown. Some of the big ones do too. I tend to especially avoid them.

 

For the small ones, I suspect its a fear on the part of the contractor is that a breakdown will lead to cheese paring. Quite understandable.

 

For the big ones, I suspect its a wheeze to try and conceal high margins.

 

Personally, I prefer a clear breakdown and tend to avoid contractors who will not. But I have made exceptions for small pieces of work and where I felt the level of trust was high. 

[Nickfromwales]

10 hours ago, TonyT said:

We used to keep it short and accept work as per drawing number Rev 2 dated ………

So issue a drawing with a drawing number and get the quote

accepted that way with a specification on materials and workmanship

 

always best to have a discussion first, saves an argument later.

Sadly, when the shizten hits the fan, conversations / spoken words mean zilch. It’s ONLY what is in ink ( email / text / WhatsApp etc / scribbled on a bit of loo roll  ) that makes any difference whatsoever if you wish to attack or defend.

 

All the good will in the world means absolutely nothing. Customers can keep taking, refuse to pay for all the things they asked you to do, agree that they are elegant solutions, but then just switch off where you ask for payment. If things were written down and agreed beforehand, as they should always be, I’d be better off right now to the tube of 5 figures myself, so know that is a fact. 
 

Even if you write it for someone ( who’s sword is mightier than their pen ) and they receive it from you, you’re 100% covered for any recourse.

[joe90]

23 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Even if you write it for someone ( who’s sword is mightier than their pen ) and they receive it from you, you’re 100% covered for any recourse.

Which is why when I was working my quotes read like war and peace, I came across so many builders/customers that argued about what was “meant”, I never had that problem.

[Ralph]

10 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

The best information available on this forum is to follow the correct avenues and stick to them like Velcro. It’s a very nice thing to have a good rapport, but the devil is in the detail, and that detail being in writing. 

100% this, and it's a two way street. I was told on a number of occasions that having a proper and detailed contract was overkill but it paid for itself many times over, especially when my contractor went into administration. I wish I was that on the ball with other parts of the build but you live and learn.