My self-build DIY plumbing

[Nickfromwales]

Just now, Thorfun said:

now I've written all of the above I believe I've actually answered your original question. I believe it's 'buffer > pump > manifold with no temp control.

Yup. I never design like this, especially if it’s over different floors in the same heated envelope. Your guys are relying solely on the ASHP to maintain the global flow temp which is the temp that each floor then receives. 
Hopefully they won’t act too differently, 

[Nickfromwales]

1 minute ago, Thorfun said:

ok cool. so, for now, we can just ignore any pumps on the GF manifold and just use the one pump in the basement and see what happens? if we find we're needing different flow temps then we can cross that bridge at that time and re-plumb at the manifolds?

In a nutshell. 

[Thorfun]

1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said:

Yup. I never design like this, especially if it’s over different floors in the same heated envelope. Your guys are relying solely on the ASHP to maintain the global flow temp which is the temp that each floor then receives. 
Hopefully they won’t act too differently, 

 

Just now, Nickfromwales said:

In a nutshell. 

ok, awesome. I'll chat to them on Friday about it all but will just leave it as is for now as I just want to get the manifold plumbed in before I start plaster boarding . happy to visit this subject again after we've lived in the house for a while and if we want finer control.

 

thank you so much for your advice.

[Nickfromwales]

1 minute ago, Thorfun said:

 

ok, awesome. I'll chat to them on Friday about it all but will just leave it as is for now as I just want to get the manifold plumbed in before I start plaster boarding . happy to visit this subject again after we've lived in the house for a while and if we want finer control.

 

thank you so much for your advice.

Just insist on a 2-port motorised zone valve being fitted to each manifold, as they can be connected to room stats and you can at least turn one off whilst the other still runs etc, but not without zone valves on each manifold. 

[Thorfun]

12 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Just insist on a 2-port motorised zone valve being fitted to each manifold, as they can be connected to room stats and you can at least turn one off whilst the other still runs etc, but not without zone valves on each manifold. 

cool. don't suppose you have any recommendations for such a product do you? I can purchase them in advance and have them here for when they attend and they can fit them.

[Pocster]

Hmmmmmm

Now then ! I used a recommend installer on here to setup my manifold with uvc etc . They said no blending required as that would be for different requirements e.g ufh and radiators . That statement will cause blood to boil !

Anyway ! If you stick self regulating actuators on those valves the delta is 7 degrees I believe .

I have these . Linked to a simple off the shelf control box then through z wave / zigbee switches . Controlled via HA with multi sensors in each ceiling . Contrary to what people think … SWMBO requires bathroom to be hotter than bedroom . Mistress requires her bedroom to be cooler . So whilst ‘ multi zone pointless - heat it as one ‘ - you can satisfy everyone ; and I’m not just on about the heating 😉

Edited June 5, 2023 by pocster

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

cool. don't suppose you have any recommendations for such a product do you? I can purchase them in advance and have them here for when they attend and they can fit them.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/honeywell-home-v4043h1106-u-2-port-motorised-valve-28mm-28mm-compression/40705?tc=ET2&ds_rl=1249404&gclid=Cj0KCQjwj_ajBhCqARIsAA37s0yvv53xnxJzJUITu9KDNeych3N2aLa6BFjubSNJxYbxeE5-ZmBygvUaAsP7EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

I think your pipework is 28mm, just check to see if it reduces after the first manifold and goes down to 22mm. If so, adjust to the second ZV being 22mm not 28mm. You can put the both where the 28's T off so all your wiring is local to the first pump / first manifold, eg the second ZV doesn't need to be at the second manifold (so no running of more cables for no reason)

Tell your guys about the planned inclusion of the ZV's, as it will provoke a little tweak of the wiring, plus the inclusion of 2x wireless stats (if you want to get them fitted now it would probably be more economical for them to nut this in one sitting vs multiple visits / retrospectively adding them).

[Nickfromwales]

I just quickly amended the link, as I first linked a 3 wire unit and you need a 5 wire unit(s). That link is sound if you want to order these. Cheaper than the PlumbingSuperstore (AKA JTM Plumbing) too!!

[Thorfun]

2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

I just quickly amended the link, as I first linked a 3 wire unit and you need a 5 wire unit(s). That link is sound if you want to order these. Cheaper than the PlumbingSuperstore (AKA JTM Plumbing) too!!

Come on Nick. You know I’m a tight ar$e. £119 x 2!! I’m sorely tempted to just turn off the basement ufh for now as it’ll be years before it’s a usable space. Then when I’m no longer on stupidly high self-build mortgage rates I might have some spare cash to get it all sorted. 
 

such is the life of a self builder. 

[Nickfromwales]

Just now, Thorfun said:

Come on Nick. You know I’m a tight ar$e. £119 x 2!! I’m sorely tempted to just turn off the basement ufh for now as it’ll be years before it’s a usable space. Then when I’m no longer on stupidly high self-build mortgage rates I might have some spare cash to get it all sorted. 
 

such is the life of a self builder. 

Not a sensible choice, as you’ll be paying more than the price of the valves in another visit. Plus, it may as well only be drained down once.

Go without food, buy the valves. Simples!

[Thorfun]

Ok. Let’s say I went with the valves. What’s this wiring all about? Do I need a wiring centre? At the moment I have a single really cheap thermostat in the basement. So would I need a second thermostat upstairs? I know you said wireless but eventually I’ll have thermostats as part of the Loxone system so was trying to do thermostats on the cheap as they’ll eventually be superfluous to requirements! Wireless thermostats sound expensive. 

[Pocster]

18 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

Ok. Let’s say I went with the valves. What’s this wiring all about? Do I need a wiring centre? At the moment I have a single really cheap thermostat in the basement. So would I need a second thermostat upstairs? I know you said wireless but eventually I’ll have thermostats as part of the Loxone system so was trying to do thermostats on the cheap as they’ll eventually be superfluous to requirements! Wireless thermostats sound expensive. 

Look @Thorfun ; you must listen too me at some point !

 

Actuators are about 30 quid each 

Wiring loom box 100 quid 

zigbee relay 8 quid 

zigbee multi sensor 20 quid 

HA system as expensive or cheap as you want .

 

chuck loxone in the bin - it costs more than 25 quid 

[Nickfromwales]

21 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

Ok. Let’s say I went with the valves. What’s this wiring all about? Do I need a wiring centre? At the moment I have a single really cheap thermostat in the basement. So would I need a second thermostat upstairs? I know you said wireless but eventually I’ll have thermostats as part of the Loxone system so was trying to do thermostats on the cheap as they’ll eventually be superfluous to requirements! Wireless thermostats sound expensive. 

You have manual levers on the valves so you can manually operate them for filling and draining, but for them to be used (with just a 13a plug if you want) that's fine, just you MUST energise these so they open 100%. The manual levers only open them around 10-15% ergo you'll have shit flow through them.

 

23 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

Ok. Let’s say I went with the valves.

You're going with the valves. Don't make me come down there 💪.

[Thorfun]

30 minutes ago, pocster said:

Look @Thorfun ; you must listen too me at some point !

 

Actuators are about 30 quid each 

Wiring loom box 100 quid 

zigbee relay 8 quid 

zigbee multi sensor 20 quid 

HA system as expensive or cheap as you want .

 

chuck loxone in the bin - it costs more than 25 quid 

It’s already purchased so that money is forgotten about. 

[Thorfun]

28 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

You're going with the valves. Don't make me come down there 💪

The wife baked a yummy blueberry cake if you do. 

[Nickfromwales]

14 hours ago, Thorfun said:

The wife baked a yummy blueberry cake if you do. 

It's 2023 mate. £5 P&P and I could be eating that after my lunch tomorrow.  

[Thorfun]

hello lovely people (and @pocster). I have another question about the layout of our master en-suite shower/toilet area mostly related to the size of Impey Aqua-dec former.

 

 

from the photo above you can see the area in question. in the alcoves behind the stud wall we have the toilet on the right and then on the left is the shower area. the left stud wall comes out to about 1100mm and the area is sized to take a 900mm wide former. we have a shower head on the wall and a drenching shower head above with the controls inside the alcove entrance to allow not getting wet when turning on the shower.

 

with the entrance to the area serving the toilet and shower what do people think will look best for size of shower tray here? an 1850mm former will almost reach the other side of the entrance. a 1400mm will go 1/3 of the way across and an 1100mm to the end of the shower stud wall. obviously, formers can be cut to any size in between.

 

worried that an 1850mm former would result in a lip down when stepping in to the shower or might make stepping in to the toilet area awkward? but then worried that an 1100mm tray to the end of the shower stud wall leaving the entrance flat would mean increased water sitting at the entrance as it has nowhere to flow.

 

opinions please. 🙂 

[crispy_wafer]

Is there a basin? or is that to the side of the w/c

 

just wondering if that would have any impact on things

 

I haven't got as far as thinking about trays and formers yet, but will this be flush with the finished floor, wetroom style?

Edited June 6, 2023 by crispy_wafer

[Thorfun]

7 minutes ago, crispy_wafer said:

Is there a basin? or is that to the side of the w/c

 

just wondering if that would have any impact on things

 

I haven't got as far as thinking about trays and formers yet, but will this be flush with the finished floor, wetroom style?

basins will be on the camera side of the stud walls on the left and a bath on the right. yes, flush with finished floor in a wetroom style. 🙂

[Pocster]

Thanks @Thorfun for the heads up . After shower - floor wet if you wish to use the toilet 🙄

[Thorfun]

Just now, pocster said:

Thanks @Thorfun for the heads up . After shower - floor wet if you wish to use the toilet 🙄

that is definitely a risk but the shower heads are 1.8m from the toilet so any shower splashes should be minimal. also we will have electric UFH which should assist in helping to dry out the floor. and MVHR extract of course.

 

this is the design our architect came up with and we're too far down the line to change it now so it's the space we need to work with.

[Pocster]

Just now, Thorfun said:

that is definitely a risk but the shower heads are 1.8m from the toilet so any shower splashes should be minimal. also we will have electric UFH which should assist in helping to dry out the floor. and MVHR extract of course.

 

this is the design our architect came up with and we're too far down the line to change it now so it's the space we need to work with.

Fair enough . I considered things like this and was concerned of water in the floor . You could get a shower cubicle in there if you preferred ?

Also ( as my SE told me ) . SE’s do the real work , architects just draw pretty pictures 😁

[Thorfun]

Just now, pocster said:

Fair enough . I considered things like this and was concerned of water in the floor . You could get a shower cubicle in there if you preferred ?

Also ( as my SE told me ) . SE’s do the real work , architects just draw pretty pictures 😁

we have discussed shower trays etc but are happy with a potentially damp area of flooring for the aesthetics of the wetroom look. i'm sure it'll be fine. 🤞

[Thorfun]

thought it might be best to put a plan view of the en-suite up to show the proposed layout.

 

 

dimensions are not accurate as we extended the bathroom 400mm to give more space between shower and toilet.

[Pocster]

22 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

thought it might be best to put a plan view of the en-suite up to show the proposed layout.

 

 

dimensions are not accurate as we extended the bathroom 400mm to give more space between shower and toilet.

Have to ask … why the ‘wall’ for the toilet ? . Removing that would make the room feel bigger .