Solar power payback takes much longer than you think

[Onoff]

7 minutes ago, nod said:

Lots of jobs worth at these tips 

 

Ours have a little open air "workshop" behind the big metal bin. All the good stuff, decent kids bikes, salvageable mowers, cable gets taken there for stripping or "further assessment" aka pricing up.

 

Ask if you can take something though, no chance, rules mate, Health & Safety etc... 😂

[Kelvin]

It’s not fortunate. It’s just how it is (well apart from the free charging) The practical difficulties are over stated. Sure if you have no off street parking it’s a challenge. 

[Roger440]

3 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

It’s not fortunate. It’s just how it is (well apart from the free charging) The practical difficulties are over stated. Sure if you have no off street parking it’s a challenge. 

 

I have a couple of freinds who run EV's who would strongly disagree with you! 

[Marvin]

10 hours ago, pocster said:

Exactly . 
Why everyone is concerned about ROI on these things baffles me . Suppose it’s 15 yrs or indeed 5 yrs . Does it matter ? . 

Not being one of the wealthy of the parish, I think it does matter. 

However, we take the view in attempting to measure the typical cost, that if the system lasts 7 years it will have cost us £1.50 a day. How much of what we produce we use, we are not sure, but I bet its more than 3kWh a day.

[Roger440]

11 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Ours have a little open air "workshop" behind the big metal bin. All the good stuff, decent kids bikes, salvageable mowers, cable gets taken there for stripping or "further assessment" aka pricing up.

 

Ask if you can take something though, no chance, rules mate, Health & Safety etc... 😂

 

Ours used to be the same, but the piss taking by the staff was on another level. All swept away now. NO recycling of servicable items allowed. MUST be scrapped. 

 

So much useable stuff being wasted, so more new stuff can be created and sold. Makes you wonder what the motivation of the council actually are. If indeed they have any beyond incompetence!

[Kelvin]

Maybe I lead a blessed life. No problems going to the tip and no problems running an EV 😂 

 

I have a friend who gave up on their EV and went back to a diesel. However, my view of their situation was more her attitude towards it. Constant panic over range anxiety despite only ever driving locally. 
 

I know many people with EVs. All of them have had our experience more or less. None will go back to ICE cars. 

[Marvin]

1 minute ago, Roger440 said:

 

I have a couple of freinds who run EV's who would strongly disagree with you! 

Yes I can see that some would find it almost impossible. It works differently for different lifestyles. Just because it works for us doesn't mean it would work for the next person down the road. You have to evaluate the situation. As with @Kelvin we would not go back to an ICE. The real p***off for us is nonexistent disabled EVs.

[Roger440]

2 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

Maybe I lead a blessed life. No problems going to the tip and no problems running an EV 😂 

 

I have a friend who gave up on their EV and went back to a diesel. However, my view of their situation was more her attitude towards it. Constant panic over range anxiety despite only ever driving locally. 
 

I know many people with EVs. All of them have had our experience more or less. None will go back to ICE cars. 

 

Range anxiety as you observe isnt necessarily real. But i think points to a wider problem, not just EV's but a lot of the solutions espoused on this very forum.

 

Namely, they are generally complex solutions, requiring a bit of thought, understanding and research to make them work and get the best from them.

 

In many cases the end user experience is not easier than what went before. EV's being a good example. In many cases its worse (ASHP's being a good example, where poor/inappropiate installations are common)

 

Aside from artificial monetery constructs to change/forcebehavious, if the new tech is better than the old, people will use it. Just thats is rarely so.

 

Ive even aquired a full 4.5kw PV array, inverter etc. Never used. Free. Just figuring out the best way to use this, having largley eliminated the problem of cost, is hard enough. And i actually want to figure it out. And i can do it all myself. So like most here, we are a fraction of 1% of the populous.

 

The average man on the street needs easy. And simple. Ever thought to pop in to your average newish build estate and see how many MHVR systems are actually still switched on?

 

[Roger440]

11 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Yes I can see that some would find it almost impossible. It works differently for different lifestyles. Just because it works for us doesn't mean it would work for the next person down the road. You have to evaluate the situation. As with @Kelvin we would not go back to an ICE. The real p***off for us is nonexistent disabled EVs.

 

do you know whats stopping disabled conversions? Cost of the base vehicle or the cost of the necessary approvals being spread over such a small number of vehicles. IVA would surely fix that?

[Marvin]

1 minute ago, Roger440 said:

 

do you know whats stopping disabled conversions? Cost of the base vehicle or the cost of the necessary approvals being spread over such a small number of vehicles. IVA would surely fix that?

Batteries in base of vehicle makes lowering the floor for wheelchairs a pain.

[Marvin]

5 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

 

do you know whats stopping disabled conversions? Cost of the base vehicle or the cost of the necessary approvals being spread over such a small number of vehicles. IVA would surely fix that?

Small number of vehicles? 1.35 million in the UK.

[Kelvin]

There are a few conversion companies out there doing wheelchair access conversions of EVs. 

[Roger440]

3 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Small number of vehicles? 1.35 million in the UK.

 

Overall no.  But each vehicle conversion "type" would need approval, so thats a lot of potential approvals. But if only a limited number of potential sales of specific EV, whos going to front up the desgin costs.  Or each vehicle needs to go through IVA, which is a cost in itself. Plus of course the design cost of something "different".

 

Whilst i dont get involved in disabled vehicles, approving stuff gets expensive real quick, so you need to be confident of your market.

 

Just guessing at the problem though. Maybe something else.

[Radian]

33 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

Ive even aquired a full 4.5kw PV array, inverter etc. Never used. Free. Just figuring out the best way to use this, having largley eliminated the problem of cost, is hard enough. And i actually want to figure it out. And i can do it all myself. So like most here, we are a fraction of 1% of the populous.

That's a bit jammy! Wonder why it was up for grabs?

 

Since April I've been 'in training' with 5 x ancient 250W panels and an inverter that was in need of repair. The panels were out of a local solar showroom that went bust donkey years ago so I've been playing with around 3kWh, on a good day, that's cost me something in the region £150. No complaints about the economics of that. I say 'training' because I'm six months into a waiting list for a 3.3kWp installation so I've been using the tiny amount of PV I've got now to test a home-brew  immersion diverter. The advantage of propping the PV modules against a fence is I can shift them around to get the best amount of power (if I can be bothered).

 

If only the Sun would stay up in the sky as it has done since April, what I've got would almost do. 100% self utilisation has been totally achievable. The extra 3.3kWp would obviously extend the year but I'm under no illusion that it will do much for us in the winter nor that I will be able to maintain 100% self use in the summer. Not without battery storage (which I'm already thinking about hacking together).

 

Just brought this topic up as I'm expecting the Solar PV installation peeps to turn up sometime next month and I can still wriggle out if I wanted to. Not that I do... I think.

[Roger440]

14 minutes ago, Radian said:

That's a bit jammy! Wonder why it was up for grabs?

 

Since April I've been 'in training' with 5 x ancient 250W panels and an inverter that was in need of repair. The panels were out of a local solar showroom that went bust donkey years ago so I've been playing with around 3kWh, on a good day, that's cost me something in the region £150. No complaints about the economics of that. I say 'training' because I'm six months into a waiting list for a 3.3kWp installation so I've been using the tiny amount of PV I've got now to test a home-brew  immersion diverter. The advantage of propping the PV modules against a fence is I can shift them around to get the best amount of power (if I can be bothered).

 

If only the Sun would stay up in the sky as it has done since April, what I've got would almost do. 100% self utilisation has been totally achievable. The extra 3.3kWp would obviously extend the year but I'm under no illusion that it will do much for us in the winter nor that I will be able to maintain 100% self use in the summer. Not without battery storage (which I'm already thinking about hacking together).

 

Just brought this topic up as I'm expecting the Solar PV installation peeps to turn up sometime next month and I can still wriggle out if I wanted to. Not that I do... I think.

 

Sounds good!

 

Mine came off the roof of an industrial unit opposite. Used to be a solar install company. Went bust a few years ago. Landlord was having them removed. I substituted my van for the skip and all was good

 

I really need to try and understand what i might get out of them in the winter before i decide what to do. Not much i guess, even if i mount them for that scenario.

[LnP]

11 hours ago, AliG said:

The trouble solar has at the moment is the very low payments for exported electricity and the very variable output.

…….

So for the sake of argument if you assume £5000 for a 4kW set up with 3500 yearly generation then you are getting around 10% ROI. However, you might get close to 20% return for the next two years.

On that basis, if you’ve got £5000 to spend, investing it in a  PV system to get a low risk after tax return of 10% or more, looks quite attractive.  Where else could you get that kind of return?

[DamonHD]

3 hours ago, Roger440 said:

 

I really need to try and understand what i might get out of them in the winter before i decide what to do. Not much i guess, even if i mount them for that scenario.

 

PVGIS is your friend:

 

https://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvg_tools/en/tools.html#PVP

 

Rgds

 

Damon

[Radian]

9 hours ago, Roger440 said:

Mine came off the roof of an industrial unit opposite. Used to be a solar install company. Went bust a few years ago

Isn't that a funny coincidence, we both got our PV from failed installers. Must have been a tough market at some point. Trying to think when I got them: (looks up Amazon orders for MC4 connectors) August 2017

[SteamyTea]

7 minutes ago, Radian said:

we both got our PV from failed installers.

Have they gone back to selling windows.

 

One of the reasons that I decided not to continue in the domestic energy market was the volatility of it.

Chickens coming home to roost now though.

[Roger440]

6 hours ago, DamonHD said:

 

PVGIS is your friend:

 

https://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvg_tools/en/tools.html#PVP

 

Rgds

 

Damon

 

Could be my friend if i actually understood what its telling me

 

Gives me lots of pretty diagrams that i dont know what to do with........................

[Roger440]

5 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Have they gone back to selling windows.

 

One of the reasons that I decided not to continue in the domestic energy market was the volatility of it.

Chickens coming home to roost now though.

 

Disappeared without a trace!

[SteamyTea]

3 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

 

Disappeared without a trace!

Like their PV modules.

 

If you have 3 kW_p of them going spare, I shall come and fill the car up with them on my next trip up, should fit.

Edited August 30, 2022 by SteamyTea

[Roger440]

Just now, SteamyTea said:

Like there PV modules.

 

If you have 3 kW_p of them going spare, I shall come and fill the car up with them on my next trip up, should fit.

 

Im going to use them. Just not sure when/how/connected to what etc.

[SteamyTea]

9 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

 

Im going to use them. Just not sure when/how/connected to what etc.

Connected to my storage heaters seems the best use to me.

[Radian]

27 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Connected to my storage heaters seems the best use to me.

Out of curiosity, what wattage are they? Thinking about how direct connection to PV modules would work out. The DC resistance of the heaters will change significantly with the heating effect of I²R compounded by the VI curve of the PV so it's all a bit fluid. I'm even struggling to write it out in English let alone modelling it in a simultaneous equation. Still, I haven't had my morning coffee yet.