How to steady this newel post?

[WWilts]

Newel post, top still deflects noticeably when pushed (hard-ish). 150mm heavy duty angle brackets not completely eliminating movement.
Steel beam below post. Hence no vertical steel rod through post (yet).

How to stop movement?

 

Staircase opening at earlier build stage. Stairs now go down to the left. Newel post sits partly atop the steel at right.

Edited August 18, 2022 by WWilts

[saveasteading]

I would say suggest that the RH bracket simply bends at the base, and the LH one potentially gives more resistance.

But the LH one isn't fixed to much floor board or close enough to the newel, so will twist. Can you get down and observe while someone else pushes? Is there any way to get more structure under that bracket?

And use a heavier gauge bracket?

[WWilts]

15 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

use a heavier gauge bracket?

180mm height of newel post base above floor board.
Will look for a heavier gauge angle bracket.

The deflection of the newel post is mainly side to side (at right angles to the flight of stairs)

[Miek]

If the post sits on the steel I'd get some angle iron, 70x70x5 (as pictured) or bigger and use that. Self drilling screws will work instead af bolts if the wood packers get in the way.  Through bolt the angle to the newel and tighten before screwing to the steel to make it a tight fit. 

 

Ultimately the newel needs a brace as high up as you can get one, otherwise it's a long lever on a pivot. 

[markc]

I can’t see the top pic ? Assuming there is 2 and not just a big white area.

Edited August 19, 2022 by markc

[ProDave]

Sory but it is fitted completely wrong.  I can't see how it will ever be solid without ugly brackets on the outside?  surely that is not what you want?

 

It is normal for the newel post to be set into the top of the stair stringer when the stairs are made, and then the newel post is notched, in the same way as the top of the stairs, so it sits over the header.  If the header is the steel, and you say the newel post is only partly on the steel, this would work. Indeed made like this, even the top stair is formed around the newel post.

 

Whoever built and fitted the stairs has done it completely wrong, it needs to come out and be fitted properly.

 

These are the top of my stairs (without handrails yet when this was taken)  the newel post is set into the top of the stair stringer and is completely solid.  The front edge of the newel post is notched out just like the front edge of both stringers so it sits over the header and part of the newel post hangs down below the ceiling downstairs.

 

[joe90]

Wot @ProDave says, if I were to fit the post to that steel  I would weld a substantial steel tube (300mm long) to the steel and bore into the post bottom to sit tight over the tube, fix with countersunk nut and bolt right through.

[WWilts]

4 hours ago, markc said:

I can’t see the top pic ? A

 

[ProDave]

Even retro fitting, if the newel post had been notched over the steel, you would have a half thickness newel post going down next to the steel that could be screwed through from the adjacent wooden joist.

 

Floor up time I am afraid. And if you have cut the bottom off that newel post flush with the floor, a new newel post as that one is too short now.

[markc]

1 hour ago, WWilts said:

 

Not the best detail to fix to but the job that has been done is terrible and will never be solid, as mentioned before it should have been taken down the side and through bolted or a spigot welded to the beam flange, and newel slotted over (boring a big deep hole in post is awkward but not that difficult).

Edited August 19, 2022 by markc

[Simplysimon]

who made the stairs?, as the top tread or bottle, as we call it up here should be a good bit wider than the one you have. normally about 50-70mm but i would have ensured it covered the steel and was able to be fixed to the timber.

[markocosic]

Take out the newel post.

 

Weld a length of pipe to the steel.

 

Stay on fire watch for a couple of hours.

 

Drill the bottom of the newel post.

 

Slip it over the steel pipe.

 

Avoids fudging everything apart again?

 

 

 

[MortarThePoint]

@WWilts How did you sort this in the end? I have a similar challenge needing a balustrade along the top of a steel beam

[WWilts]

 

 

 

I think the builder used a new section of newel post scribed to hang over the top of the stringer. Then a carriage bolt through it all, from under the stairs, into the joist on the far side. Works 80% ok (budges only if a heavy person flings themselves at it, not at serious risk of giving in ... I think). Not a good solution, but working ok.

Although nobody knows less than I do about all this -
If I were forced to fix wood to steel (as I will have to for some other job) then there are specialist fixings for the purpose, I believe. Please do better than I did. Someone who knows more will hopefully step in & advise.

[ProDave]

I think the gap between the nose of the stair and the floorboard says all we need to know about the skill of the "carpenter" that fitted that.

 

for a start I would have had the newel post further to the right.

[MortarThePoint]

On 13/10/2023 at 01:15, WWilts said:

 

 

 

 

I think the builder used a new section of newel post scribed to hang over the top of the stringer. Then a carriage bolt through it all, from under the stairs, into the joist on the far side. Works 80% ok (budges only if a heavy person flings themselves at it, not at serious risk of giving in ... I think). Not a good solution, but working ok.

Although nobody knows less than I do about all this -
If I were forced to fix wood to steel (as I will have to for some other job) then there are specialist fixings for the purpose, I believe. Please do better than I did. Someone who knows more will hopefully step in & advise.

 

Sounds like a practical solution to a tricky problem. How did the stringer attach to the steel?

 

These screws may be of interest:

https://youtu.be/63m5CL5G9Cg?si=ct5yEGvgZwwO34ZX