Bath Surround / Boxing In, and concealed pipework

[Onoff]

Doing all this and SHE still wants f***ing WHITE PLASTIC tile trim!

[Nickfromwales]

You'll thank her when you come to the bath surround with all its complex angles. ?

[Onoff]

45 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

You'll thank her when you come to the bath surround with all its complex angles. ?

 

In advance of the mass of tiling questions to come...

 

Stick the trim on with mitre bond, I get that, but how do you keep it dead straight when doing so? Hold it against a long level?

[Nickfromwales]

Basically, yes. Glue the first 100mm then stitch it as you go, gluing and spraying accordingly until you get to the end. Don't try and do the whole thing in one go . 

Remeber to use either a mix of curved / quadrant trim at the horizontal and then square edge for the drops from corners where two quads make a corner and you need to drop a trim down ( each front corner of the batt for eg ). That combination removes the '3-way dagger' issue you'll get when forming these corners if you used all quad trims. 

2 quads cut to form a 90 leave a perfectly square, sharp corner. Bringing a quad up to meet that is a marriage made of hell ( like say if Donald and Hilary had a baby  ). 

[Onoff]

42 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Basically, yes. Glue the first 100mm then stitch it as you go, gluing and spraying accordingly until you get to the end. Don't try and do the whole thing in one go . 

Remeber to use either a mix of curved / quadrant trim at the horizontal and then square edge for the drops from corners where two quads make a corner and you need to drop a trim down ( each front corner of the batt for eg ). That combination removes the '3-way dagger' issue you'll get when forming these corners if you used all quad trims. 

2 quads cut to form a 90 leave a perfectly square, sharp corner. Bringing a quad up to meet that is a marriage made of hell ( like say if Donald and Hilary had a baby  ). 

 

Erm....reaches for the pen and pencil...

 

You ever thought of doing this for a living?

[Onoff]

Chromed copper and push fit fittings.....

 

I need to test my run to the towel rad before I whack all the plasterboard over it for good. There's 4 elbows that need testing along with the Pex-Al-Pex pipe.

 

If I link the two chromed rad tails like this with 15mm push fit elbows and a length of pipe it'll give me a loop. I'll cap one end a stick the hose / gauge on the other like I did for the UFH loop:

 

 

Will the push fits blow off the chrome?

Edited December 16, 2016 by Onoff

[Nickfromwales]

They tend to 'work' themselves off over time with fluctuations in temp / pressure. 

Should be ok for a temp run if you can emery cloth the ends a little ?

[PeterW]

11 hours ago, Onoff said:

If I link the two chromed rad tails like this with 15mm push fit elbows and a length of pipe it'll give me a loop. I'll cap one end a stick the hose / gauge on the other like I did for the UFH loop

 

Don't forget your central heating will be nowhere near 3-4 bar so a 2 bar test will be fine. 

[Nickfromwales]

You 'should' test at the operating pressure of the PRV ( for later when you convert ) which is 3.5bar. . 

Thats the most it would see if for e.g. you knocked the fill loop tap and it crept up to mains pressure. Worst case is best practice. 

[Onoff]

With or without sanding the end of the 15mm chromed pipe the Hep2O push fit elbows pull pretty much straight off with little effort.

 

Think again on that...

 

Going to play with the bath instead now!

[Nickfromwales]

Compression and don't overtighten. 

[Onoff]

3/4" marine ply discs cut. Will be glued and clamped together to make bath feet:

 

 

I KNEW IT was worth hanging on to those 1/4" BSW bolts years ago!

[Onoff]

The bath feet should work fine.

 

Got to add the centre one. The bracket has been pi$$ed since new.

 

 

A couple of questions as I'm hoping to have a "dry" run this week, well at least fill it up via the hose to see how it sits and make sure the pump works before I extend all the cabling. Half fill or fully fill?

 

1) The waste incorporated into the slab, I might have knocked this once or twice. Is it worth a smear of solvent weld around the joint again?

 

 

2) The "plughole", where does the CT1 go?

 

 

3) Ditto the overflow, where does the CT1 go?

 

 

4) The connection between trap and black waste above. With the flexible hose I have, hand tight? Any lube needed?

 

 

Cheers

Edited December 19, 2016 by Onoff

[Onoff]

Back on the Dec 15 post I show the Hep2O PB pipes I'm using to feed the bath. The push fit tap connectors, again Hep2O are these:

 

 

They're NOT that springy and flexible like proper flexible connectors. The PB pipe is thus going to end up coming out of the fitting at an angle like that above and sort of held/forced over to one side.

 

Just mulling whether the seal will cope with that long term?

[Nickfromwales]

On 19 December 2016 at 22:52, Onoff said:

The bath feet should work fine.

 

Got to add the centre one. The bracket has been pi$$ed since new.

 

 

A couple of questions as I'm hoping to have a "dry" run this week, well at least fill it up via the hose to see how it sits and make sure the pump works before I extend all the cabling. Half fill or fully fill?

 

1) The waste incorporated into the slab, I might have knocked this once or twice. Is it worth a smear of solvent weld around the joint again?

 

 

2) The "plughole", where does the CT1 go?

 

 

3) Ditto the overflow, where does the CT1 go?

 

 

4) The connection between trap and black waste above. With the flexible hose I have, hand tight? Any lube needed?

 

 

Cheers

I'll add to that in the morning

[Onoff]

The removable taps idea looks like it'll work:

 

 

 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

That's a result. 

Essentially taps are serviceable from above anyhoo, but if you can't get parts then this would negate the worry of how to replace them when they do go.

So, can your missus have a bath now? 

[Onoff]

8 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

That's a result. 

Essentially taps are serviceable from above anyhoo, but if you can't get parts then this would negate the worry of how to replace them when they do go.

So, can your missus have a bath now? 

 

God no! It's got to come out again of course!

 

I'm hoping to replace the taps with Vado Summit if I can convince her down the line:

 

 

(Of course the taps above might not (almost certainly won't) fit on where the adapters are as I think they need to sit on a dead flat surface. I can foresee a specially machined 316 st/st plate to sit over the adapters!)

 

- Need to fill the hole in the slab I excavated for the rad pipes.

 

- Need to paint the floor under the bath.

 

- Debating sticking some thin (3mm) rubber discs under the 5 bath feet. Dampening / location. Not that it wobbles, the wife and daughter had a trial "lay" in it last night.

 

- The foot nearest the internal wall corner I think needs a 3mm pack. 

 

- Overflow & waste needs to go on as above last lot of questions (any thoughts ref the CT1?).

 

Biggest problem is the ply carcass: 

 

- I need to introduce a glued and pinned "upstand" the bath lip sits over. The tiles will abut this.

 

- The "removable" half - tricky getting your hand in and around to the screws that separate it from the batten screwed to the floor. This is looking down towards the removable side panel on the long side. You can see the screw I have to get to, one the other side of the opening too. Might have to rethink and make some accessible st/st angle brackets:

 

 

- The scallop out of the uprights that misses the bath side pipes needs to be made bigger just to give a bit more clearance (tighter than it looks):

 

 

Oh, and I need to connect up the hot & cold in the loft and find somewhere for the waste outside to go....

 

 

Edited December 29, 2016 by Onoff

[Nickfromwales]

On 19 December 2016 at 22:52, Onoff said:

The bath feet should work fine.

 

Got to add the centre one. The bracket has been pi$$ed since new.

 

 

A couple of questions as I'm hoping to have a "dry" run this week, well at least fill it up via the hose to see how it sits and make sure the pump works before I extend all the cabling. Half fill or fully fill?

 

1) The waste incorporated into the slab, I might have knocked this once or twice. Is it worth a smear of solvent weld around the joint again?

 

 

2) The "plughole", where does the CT1 go?

 

 

3) Ditto the overflow, where does the CT1 go?

 

 

4) The connection between trap and black waste above. With the flexible hose I have, hand tight? Any lube needed?

 

 

Cheers

 

1. a) Fill it to the brim to simulate you sitting in it whilst it's full. b) Once solvent weld has gone off that's the end of the show mate. You'll be able to tow a car with that, a few knocks won't matter a toss. Adding glue will just create a skin which won't do anything whatsoever and will just peel away once cured. 
2. A bit more to this one. In your left hand you have the 'plughole', and two rubber washers. I usually ditch the upper one and make that up entirely out of sika. The conical one is where the thinking is applied. Does the conical one fit the profile of the bath reasonably well, or does it hold the waste off the floor of the bath a lot? If the latter, then I'd ditch that one also and pack out with sika. Tightening the fitting will displace any excess sealant so just load it up according to the gap you know exists + 25%. The only important part of that marriage is the underside of the 'plughole' being sealed against the upper face of the hole in the bath. The seals are a secondary consideration IMO, BUT, if the rubber seals just happen to match the bath perfectly you can get away with a sealant-free installation that doesn't leak. Doesn't happen very often btw as these are universal wastes . The rubber seal on the waste arrangement is a pretty good seal on its own. Hand tight, that probably wouldn't leak, it's just down to the accuracy of the finish where the underside of the bath has been ground down to create the seat face. I'd apply just a very thin smear of sika to the underside of that seal ( removing it from the waste to do so ) and then refit it loosely. Then apply another smear to the ribbed face ( which will be in contact with the bath ), with another smear on the bath underside itself, to soak up any imperfection in the casting. Once you've done that and are ready to assemble, the tricky part is to pass the plughole through the various openings / seals etc WITHOUT getting any sealant migrating to the inside of the plughole or waste. Look through the centre during installation to ensure this is so. LAST important note is not to allow ANY rotation of the waste during FINAL tightening. The reason for that is the rubber seal on the waste is now lubricated so it'll get pushed out of position by pressure and motion. Pressure ( created by the plughole getting rotated into the static waste during final tightening ) is fine, but movement during this process is fatal. Remember not to over tighten too, as the sealant will recreate the job of the seals it replaces, and do a better job. 
3. Just a smear on the ribbed face will be more than plenty. As this never sees any pressure / weight of water, it needs almost nothing other than the factory arrangement. 
4. Hand tight and nowt else. These are bombproof. Same with the plastic trap nut. Just be sure to de-burr the inside of the waste pipe at every joint to stop hair from snagging ( which I'll bet my left nut you've already done anyhoo ). 
5. Only thing I've ever had go wrong with these baths when new and out of the packaging is a leaking jet / inlet / outlet, where some goon has used it to lift the bath / struck it at some point. A soak test will show this immediately, ( over a couple of hours ). Running the pump with the bath full is the only way to check for leaks under pressure. Have some anti-foam droplets ready. 

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

 

God no! It's got to come out again of course!

 

I'm hoping to replace the taps with Vado Summit if I can convince her down the line:

 

 

(Of course the taps above might not (almost certainly won't) fit on where the adapters are as I think they need to sit on a dead flat surface. I can foresee a specially machined 316 st/st plate to sit over the adapters!)

 

- Need to fill the hole in the slab I excavated for the rad pipes.

 

- Need to paint the floor under the bath.

 

- Debating sticking some thin (3mm) rubber discs under the 5 bath feet. Dampening / location. Not that it wobbles, the wife and daughter had a trial "lay" in it last night.

 

- The foot nearest the internal wall corner I think needs a 3mm pack. 

 

- Overflow & waste needs to go on as above last lot of questions (any thoughts ref the CT1?).

 

Biggest problem is the ply carcass: 

 

- I need to introduce a glued and pinned "upstand" the bath lip sits over. The tiles will abut this.

 

- The "removable" half - tricky getting your hand in and around to the screws that separate it from the batten screwed to the floor. This is looking down towards the removable side panel on the long side. You can see the screw I have to get to, one the other side of the opening too. Might have to rethink and make some accessible st/st angle brackets:

 

 

- The scallop out of the uprights that misses the bath side pipes needs to be made bigger just to give a bit more clearance (tighter than it looks):

 

 

Oh, and I need to connect up the hot & cold in the loft and find somewhere for the waste outside to go....

 

 

Change the akward to reach screws to hex or torx drive so there's less chance of them cam'ing out and getting stuck. Hex drive would be my choice here. 

The vado is a very nice looking tap, is the hard sale down to cost?

[Onoff]

29 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Change the akward to reach screws to hex or torx drive so there's less chance of them cam'ing out and getting stuck. Hex drive would be my choice here. 

The vado is a very nice looking tap, is the hard sale down to cost?

 

The Vado is around £300 plus SHE doesn't like the look. 

 

Even with Torx and a right angled driver it's awkward. At the mo I've got x4 5mm Goldscrews to hold the long side down to the batten on the floor; one either side of the hatch, one at the end by the wall and one at the foot of the bath by the fancy mitre joint. Even thinking something on the lines of M6 bolts and ratchet spanner.

 

(The floor batten btw is held down with x3 M10 studs into Fischer resin studs in the slab all on a bed of Sika).

 

Lifting the bath in is a game. Impossible on my own too. I have to drag madam away from sofa / Candy Crush or No.1 son away from Titanfall  Not sure if I'll be able to fit the overflow and waste then put the bath in without knocking the waste tbh. Might be better to fit the waste only when the bath goes in and isn't coming out again. As in put on the flexi waste and trap first then lower the bath in and work from above.....I'll wait until my handy mate John comes down as we work together without rowing!

 

What muppet suggested partially sinking the bath? Oh yes it was John!

[Onoff]

How long should I leave my radiator pipe loop on test before I get the plasterboards on?

 

Pressurised it to 3 bar a few hours ago  (briefly at 8 bar until I bled it down) and no leaks in the 4 elbows in the the run.

 

Good enough or wait 24 hours?

 

Cheers

[Nickfromwales]

1 minute at 8 chuffing bar would show just about anything. Crack on, I say. . 

[Tennentslager]

This bathroom project post total is the Coronation St of buildhub...not a fan of any of the soaps but this is one is worth the wait for the final estate agent pics.

 

[Nickfromwales]

Buildhub owns the rights for the book, so I'm hoping it'll sell more copies than Jordan's "legs wide shut".