Dillsue Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 7 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: If it wasn’t optimised that was a lethal cocktail. Only if dragsterdriver pushed a piece a wire up the inside of both MC4 connectors at the same time and held them. Probably no more lethal than working on the roof? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 🤔🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenP Posted July 20, 2022 Author Share Posted July 20, 2022 Interesting comments - thanks all. I think it was summed up well above somewhere. I'd happily have a go at connecting up to the isolator in the loft but I have no way of testing that all the MC4 connectors are ok etc. You could bet if I had the scaffold down there would be a fault!! Alas - we have a chap booked in 5th August so only have an extra 2 weeks scaffold hire. All very interesting though, no MCS people want to go near it, only supply, design and install their own stuff. Not even keen to recommend a competent installer who may just want a bit of extra cash. The chap we've found is actually going on a solar course the week before as he's seen a bit of a gap in the market for it all. Anyway, that's when I'm back from holiday.... Thanks again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragsterDriver Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 19 hours ago, Dillsue said: Only if dragsterdriver pushed a piece a wire up the inside of both MC4 connectors at the same time and held them. Probably no more lethal than working on the roof? This is my understanding of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragsterDriver Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 1 hour ago, BenP said: Interesting comments - thanks all. I think it was summed up well above somewhere. I'd happily have a go at connecting up to the isolator in the loft but I have no way of testing that all the MC4 connectors are ok etc. You could bet if I had the scaffold down there would be a fault!! Alas - we have a chap booked in 5th August so only have an extra 2 weeks scaffold hire. All very interesting though, no MCS people want to go near it, only supply, design and install their own stuff. Not even keen to recommend a competent installer who may just want a bit of extra cash. The chap we've found is actually going on a solar course the week before as he's seen a bit of a gap in the market for it all. Anyway, that's when I'm back from holiday.... Thanks again. They won’t, it’s because of the big mark up from supplying the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 42 minutes ago, DragsterDriver said: They won’t, it’s because of the big mark up from supplying the gear. MCS is not about markup, it’s about responsibility / liability / guaranteeing a foundation production or more. Design software and MCS scrutinisation offers a quality assurance which you don’t get elsewhere. Why do you think only MCS accredited installations are eligible for SEG payments ?! Why do you think manufacturers offer extended warranties on their kit, some lifetime warranties, on the proviso it was installed by a competent / registered company or person and maintained annually. Markup is recovery of overheads which you should expect to pay when engaging with such companies. If you don’t want the service / backup / reliability / assurances / qualifications / experience / registration / SEG etc, just head down the pub where you’ll find a load of lesser-beings propping the bar up. “Big markup”…..Way too coarse a generalisation there sorry!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA3222 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: MCS is not about markup, it’s about responsibility / liability / guaranteeing a foundation production or more. Design software and MCS scrutinisation offers a quality assurance which you don’t get elsewhere. Why do you think only MCS accredited installations are eligible for SEG payments ?! Why do you think manufacturers offer extended warranties on their kit, some lifetime warranties, on the proviso it was installed by a competent / registered company or person and maintained annually. Markup is recovery of overheads which you should expect to pay when engaging with such companies. If you don’t want the service / backup / reliability / assurances / qualifications / experience / registration / SEG etc, just head down the pub where you’ll find a load of lesser-beings propping the bar up. “Big markup”…..Way too coarse a generalisation there sorry!! I agree with the previous post, MCS or any scheme whereby the Government incentivises installation leads to one thing, a plethora of individuals eager to take a seat at the gravy rain and milk it for all its worth. This is clearly evidenced by the massive decline in mcs installers for solar knocking around nowadays. FIT went.and the hoardes of installers went with it. There may well be some good.ens.out there however the well is overwhelmingly poisoned by all the others creaming thousands at a time by front loading the cost of installation. There is absolutely nothing difficult about PV installation. The prices charged are shocking. Edited July 20, 2022 by LA3222 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillsue Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Why do you think manufacturers offer extended warranties on their kit, some lifetime warranties, on the proviso it was installed by a competent / registered company or person and maintained annually. Thats not the case for lifetime warranties on Solaredge kit as they need kit installing and maintaining to their instructions. No need for any specific skill set/accreditation other than being able to read and understand technical english, and pay the extended warranty fee. I suspect that other manufacturers are the same?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 46 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: just head down the pub where you’ll find a load of lesser-beings propping the bar up. You having a dig? Come up the Rising Sun Thurs/Fri/Sat/Sun night and say that! 😂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragsterDriver Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 13 hours ago, LA3222 said: I agree with the previous post, MCS or any scheme whereby the Government incentivises installation leads to one thing, a plethora of individuals eager to take a seat at the gravy rain and milk it for all its worth. This is clearly evidenced by the massive decline in mcs installers for solar knocking around nowadays. FIT went.and the hoardes of installers went with it. There may well be some good.ens.out there however the well is overwhelmingly poisoned by all the others creaming thousands at a time by front loading the cost of installation. There is absolutely nothing difficult about PV installation. The prices charged are shocking. ASHP is the same, a free for all with installers making a couple of grand a day. Like the Wild West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragsterDriver Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 14 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: MCS is not about markup, it’s about responsibility / liability / guaranteeing a foundation production or more. Design software and MCS scrutinisation offers a quality assurance which you don’t get elsewhere. Why do you think only MCS accredited installations are eligible for SEG payments ?! Why do you think manufacturers offer extended warranties on their kit, some lifetime warranties, on the proviso it was installed by a competent / registered company or person and maintained annually. Markup is recovery of overheads which you should expect to pay when engaging with such companies. If you don’t want the service / backup / reliability / assurances / qualifications / experience / registration / SEG etc, just head down the pub where you’ll find a load of lesser-beings propping the bar up. “Big markup”…..Way too coarse a generalisation there sorry!! It’s a gravy train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 14 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: MCS is not about markup, it’s about responsibility / liability / guaranteeing a foundation production or more. Design software and MCS scrutinisation offers a quality assurance which you don’t get elsewhere. Why do you think only MCS accredited installations are eligible for SEG payments ?! Why do you think manufacturers offer extended warranties on their kit, some lifetime warranties, on the proviso it was installed by a competent / registered company or person and maintained annually. Markup is recovery of overheads which you should expect to pay when engaging with such companies. If you don’t want the service / backup / reliability / assurances / qualifications / experience / registration / SEG etc, just head down the pub where you’ll find a load of lesser-beings propping the bar up. “Big markup”…..Way too coarse a generalisation there sorry!! Somebody "encouraged" you to support the cause? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 16 minutes ago, ProDave said: Somebody "encouraged" you to support the cause? Nope. Do you support ‘hero electricians’ ( people who just own tools but never served their time / pay to be registered on a competent installers scheme / pay insurance like you do ) and then don’t sign off / do undertake illegitimate ( illegal ) works? Just been around enough shabby trades / witnessedtheir ‘work’ and you soon see what a time served, registered installer / prestige company ( ones that actually give a fcuk ) puts out. You need your day rate to cover those overheads, do you not? When a company has multiple staff, admin, vehicles, business premises, storage facilities etc etc and all those associated costs, how could they ever go anywhere for the same day rate as you?! Come on……..😉. Let’s talk a bit of sense vs just jumping on a witch hunt eh? 14 hours ago, Dillsue said: Thats not the case for lifetime warranties on Solaredge kit as they need kit installing and maintaining to their instructions. No need for any specific skill set/accreditation other than being able to read and understand technical english, and pay the extended warranty fee. I suspect that other manufacturers are the same?? ….not the manufacturers per-se but the fact that it has to be ( for unvented ) a G3 trained and registered installer. All the failed UVC’s that I’ve been to have not ever seen a single solitary inspection / service, and the customers sit there waving their arms about and whinging whilst on the phone to the insurance company. Parked on the drive are a couple of prestige vehicles with immaculate dealership serve history . Go figure?!? I say “blame yourself”. I guess ignorance isn’t always bliss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: All the failed UVC’s that I’ve been to have not ever seen a single solitary inspection / service, and the customers sit there waving their arms about As an aside ( as I see both sides of this argument), in what way do UVC,s fail.? Edited July 21, 2022 by joe90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, joe90 said: As an aside ( as I see both sides of this argument), in what way to UVC,s fail.? No pressure test of incoming mania vs sum output of the control group > UVC. I always fit a secondary pressure gauge after the control group so the client can simply glance at it to confirm correct / safe function of the control group. Easier then, than checking the oil in your car. Installers taking unbalanced cold feeds to mixer taps allowing at-source incoming mains pressure to back-feed into the UVC via the hot feed. Insufficient EV capacity for larger systems and those with an HRC. EV’s not inspected regularly to recognise when one has lost its pre-charge. Same with rusting EV’s which then just pop. List goes on….. Edited July 21, 2022 by Nickfromwales 28 typos. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillsue Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said: ….not the manufacturers per-se but the fact that it has to be ( for unvented ) a G3 trained and registered installer. Not sure where UVCs came into the comments on warranties as the chat was about PV and you were commenting on MCS and SEG.... clearly not UVC related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 19 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: MCS is not about markup, it’s about responsibility / liability / guaranteeing a foundation production or more. Design software and MCS scrutinisation offers a quality assurance which you don’t get elsewhere. Why do you think only MCS accredited installations are eligible for SEG payments ?! Why do you think manufacturers offer extended warranties on their kit, some lifetime warranties, on the proviso it was installed by a competent / registered company or person and maintained annually. Markup is recovery of overheads which you should expect to pay when engaging with such companies. If you don’t want the service / backup / reliability / assurances / qualifications / experience / registration / SEG etc, just head down the pub where you’ll find a load of lesser-beings propping the bar up. “Big markup”…..Way too coarse a generalisation there sorry!! Indeed doing "install only" of customer supplied kit carries quite a lot of uncertainty even in the best case scenario. If the installer has to sign off the whole install as MCS certified it's going to be much harder if they didn't supply gear (which maybe uncertified or even counterfeit for all the installer knows). Even if it's genuine and under warranty, it's still the installer that will be called out in the first instance if anything goes wrong. As a counter example, I bought my own alarm system components (Texecom) and got a local installer to commission it, as required for Grade 2 alarm with a police URN. Honestly, in retrospect if I was the installer I would never have taken me on as a customer! Certainly the installer has a markup on parts, but the amount of items I've had fail is truly shocking* and each time it results in a massive faff for me chasing up the manufacturer for warranty (if I can be arsed to) and then getting the installer back in (double call-out charge) to do the replacement. (Or I DIY it which is int he grey for a remote monitored system) [* - Failed so far: main panel backup battery, Texecom connect internet gateway, one keyfob, one PIR, and the batteries in pretty much all door sensors, all failed in the first a year. My suspicion is the online resellers with discounts have a lot of old-stock or recalled items.] In other news: Texecom is a bag o shite that I do not recommend. But I digress. point is, MCS is a "design + install + maintenance" industry assurance and it's much more PITA for the installer to stand behind all that if they're dealing with a wild-west of customer source components. MCS has masses of flaws and I really dislike the way it's mandated for SEG or BUS Grant as much as anyone, but so long as there is an MCS scheme I do understand why most installers will want to be supply-only. It's just that much lower risk and keeps things in their control for them as a business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 This be @Onoff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronski Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 On 20/07/2022 at 15:33, BenP said: Alas - we have a chap booked in 5th August so only have an extra 2 weeks scaffold hire. I'm in Broadstairs and likely going DIY route, is your chap a qualified electrician and can he sign off on part P? Where's is he based, perhaps you could let me have his details please? Question for the others, I already have an MCS install I earn fits with, if adding another non MCS install will I be able to get export payments from both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenP Posted August 4, 2022 Author Share Posted August 4, 2022 On 26/07/2022 at 07:23, Ronski said: I'm in Broadstairs and likely going DIY route, is your chap a qualified electrician and can he sign off on part P? Where's is he based, perhaps you could let me have his details please? Hey, Sorry for late reply - I've been away the last two weeks cycling through France having a much needed break!! Our chap comes tomorrow (he's on his solar course this week funnily enough). As far as I know he is Part P / typical electrician. He just so happens to be branching out into Solar seeing it as something that will be in demand. He's local to you (Minster). I'll report back and pass on details etc in a few days. Ta 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronski Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 @BenP Good direction to branch out in, sounds perfect, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenP Posted August 5, 2022 Author Share Posted August 5, 2022 Bingo! Solar PV is live - fresh from a 4 day MCS course the two lads were on it and we were connected by1:30pm today 12x325w panels managed an output of 10.76kwh from then until the end of the day. Can't wait to see the stats over the coming weeks. @Ronski - will PM you details shortly. Ta 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronski Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 That's good news, does that mean they can issue and register MCS certificates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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