Tata Urban Colorcoat Metal Seam Roofing

[Barney12]

We have specified the above for the North bottom section of our roof. Its a slightly unusual design (which I'm really regretting) as its a transition from slate to metal seam.

 

 

I am absolutely pulling my hair out with them. It seems the sales person I was dealing with left the company and no one took on her workload. Her emails were just not answered and her mobile answerphone ignored! Great service!! NOT!

 

Anyway I finally managed to make contact with someone new and despite another three weeks passing I'm still waiting for the answer to what I believe is a very simple question. I have a new promise of an answer by "midweek" but thought I'd ask the collective view of the forum as the MBC guys are going to start putting the bloody frame up next week! I have a recollection that @JSHarris had originally considered this product?

 

My question relates to roof build up.

 

The Tata technical manual shows this:

 

 

So I have agreed with MBC the following:

 

(From the inside out)

1. 15mm Plasterboard (Client)
2. 22mm Service Cavity Batten (MBC)
3. Airtight Membrane (MBC)
4. 225mm Rafter (MBC)
5. Roofing felt (MBC)
6. 50mm Counter Batten on Rafter (Supplier TBC)
7. 18mm OSB3 Deck (Supplier TBC)
8. Breather Membrane (Supplier TBC)

 

(Note that between 3 and 5 above will be the insulation fill.)

 

To my mind this provides what is required.

 

What I would actually like to do is reduce the counter batten (no.6) to 25mm as the build up creates a kick from the tile to metal seam transition.

 

Do others think this provides sufficient ventilation of the deck?

 

Any thoughts hugely appreciated!

 

I had even researched changing to another metal seam roof supplier but all the quotes I've had in are more than double that of the Tata product.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by Barney12

[Jeremy Harris]

I did look at using Colorcoat Urban, but didn't get very far with them because the integrated thin film solar panel company went bust (they made self-adhesive flexible PV that fitted neatly to the roofing sheets.  There was a very helpful lady at Tata, who was very good at getting information, as I recall.  If she's left and they haven't replaced her then it doesn't surprise me that they're not able to be as helpful.

 

Is the membrane at item 5 above vapour permeable?  It needs to be, I think.  The membrane at item 3 needs to be the VCL.  Other than that it looks OK.  I did get as far as confirming with Tata that fixing to OSB with a breather membrane was fine.  They also offered a short course on installing the sheets, but having looked at the fixings I think it's a pretty simple system to get to grips with.

 

[Mr Punter]

I think the 50mm is sensible and allows for insulation being uneven and the roof nails not penetrating the outer airtight membrane.  Why not batten the tile section an extra 25mm?

[Barney12]

3 hours ago, JSHarris said:

I did look at using Colorcoat Urban, but didn't get very far with them because the integrated thin film solar panel company went bust (they made self-adhesive flexible PV that fitted neatly to the roofing sheets.  There was a very helpful lady at Tata, who was very good at getting information, as I recall.  If she's left and they haven't replaced her then it doesn't surprise me that they're not able to be as helpful.

 

Is the membrane at item 5 above vapour permeable?  It needs to be, I think.  The membrane at item 3 needs to be the VCL.  Other than that it looks OK.  I did get as far as confirming with Tata that fixing to OSB with a breather membrane was fine.  They also offered a short course on installing the sheets, but having looked at the fixings I think it's a pretty simple system to get to grips with.

 

 

Thanks Jeremy, to completely honest if I wasn't this far ahead I would ditch them. The girl I had been dealing with was brilliant so I suspect it may be one and the same!

 

Sorry No.5 is a typo by me. Its actually listed as "roofing felt" which I assume would be the normal breathable stuff they use. I'll correct my post.

[Barney12]

3 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

I think the 50mm is sensible and allows for insulation being uneven and the roof nails not penetrating the outer airtight membrane.  Why not batten the tile section an extra 25mm?

 

That may be an option. If I did that would I need to do the same on the South or would such a small difference not be noticeable to the eye?

[Ian]

@Barney12

I'm a bit confused about the dimension of the ventilation gap you will be left with if you counterbatten? Your drawing shows a ventilation gap of 50mm but your text suggests that you want to reduce that to 25mm - is that correct?

 

As long as your counterbatten runs on top and in line with the rafter and you also have eaves and ridge vents then 25mm will be be okay however If your counterbatten is at 90 degrees to the rafters then you've potentially lost your ventilation gap which is no good.

 

 

Separate issue re corrosion:

I've got a fair bit of experience in using this type of colour coated steel roofing sheets. If the location is in a built-up city environment or near the coast then in my experience the sheets are vulnerable to corrosion at the cut ends of the sheets above the gutter line and on any lap joints (its best to avoid lap joints altogether). I've seen the cut ends of this type of metal sheet start rusting within a few years of installation. If your location is in the countryside well away from sources of salt or polloution then you'll be okay.

 

The last time I specified this type of sheet it was for a factory extension where we needed to match the existing roof. I specified that the cut ends were to be painted however all it did was to delay the inevitable and the cut ends started corroding within 5 years of installation.

[Barney12]

1 minute ago, Ian said:

I'm a bit confused about the dimension of the ventilation gap you will be left with if you counterbatten? Your drawing shows a ventilation gap of 50mm but your text suggests that you want to reduce that to 25mm - is that correct?

 

As long as your counterbatten runs on top and in line with the rafter and you also have eaves and ridge vents then 25mm will be be okay however If your counterbatten is at 90 degrees to the rafters then you've potentially lost your ventilation gap which is no good.

 

Yes, I'd like to reduce it to 25mm as that will bring the slate section over the top of the metal seam creating a neater finish (obviously with the flashing underneath at the junction.

Sorry, yes MBC have detailed it as counter batten but the plan is to run it on top and in line with the rafter.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Ian said:

Separate issue re corrosion:

I've got a fair bit of experience in using this type of colour coated steel roofing sheets. If the location is in a built-up city environment or near the coast then in my experience the sheets are vulnerable to corrosion at the cut ends of the sheets above the gutter line and on any lap joints (its best to avoid lap joints altogether). I've seen the cut ends of this type of metal sheet start rusting within a few years of installation. If your location is in the countryside well away from sources of salt or polloution then you'll be okay.

 

The last time I specified this type of sheet it was for a factory extension where we needed to match the existing roof. I specified that the cut ends were to be painted however all it did was to delay the inevitable and the cut ends started corroding within 5 years of installation.

 

Thats interesting to hear. We are in a very rural location but we do get some pretty special wind and rain as we're 2000ft above sea level. Thankfully the North elevation is fairly well sheltered from the worst which comes straight off the open moor in front of us.

 

I had actually gone this route because I was told by a couple of local roofers that Zink has a poor life span and tends to rot.

 

I must check what Tata's warranty says on the subject.

 

[Ian]

9 minutes ago, Barney12 said:

Thats interesting to hear. We are in a very rural location but we do get some pretty special wind and rain as we're 2000ft above sea level. Thankfully the North elevation is fairly well sheltered from the worst which comes straight off the open moor in front of us.

 

 

Re the high winds - are you specifying the narrower 300mm panels then?

[Ian]

13 minutes ago, Barney12 said:

 

I must check what Tata's warranty says on the subject.

 

The Tata Confidex warranty is excellent if thats available with your product and it also covers the issue with corrosion at the cut ends of the sheets

[jfb]

I had a couple of colorcoat roofs installed by the these guys and was very happy with them and the roof. I didn't go the DIY route because I was pretty much doing everything else so happy to pay more for this part of the build.

I'm not sure if you are installing yourself or not but I wouldn't hesitate to call them as I suspect they could answer your questions pretty quick (maybe while getting an install quote).

I also have a copy of the guarantee if you want to have a look.

 

http://www.steelroofinstallersuk.com/contact-us/

[Barney12]

On 24/05/2017 at 13:10, Ian said:

Re the high winds - are you specifying the narrower 300mm panels then?

 

Its another question from Tata I need answering. I don't think we will need to as the North of the building is sheltered from the South/South West aspect which takes the full brunt of rain/wind from the open moor.

 

Today's Friday. So that's another broken promise from Tata who on Monday promised answers to my questions by "midweek".

 

Amazing how they can attend each and every trade, self build, design show in the land with a fancy stand but not actually come through with actually allowing me to spend money!!

[Barney12]

Just to update this thread. I have finally taken the decision to ditch Tata's product. Hugely frustrating. 

 

The straw that broke the camels back was their notification of a price increase since my quote (despite checking only two months ago that the quote was still valid). How much you're asking? 45% yes you read that right FORTY FIVE PERCENT! 

 

They are BY FAR the worst company I have EVER had the displeasure of dealing with. I could write paragraphs on their general inefficiency, unhelpfulness and couldn't give a crap attitude. Buyer beware. 

[Pete]

We found going through a middle person rather direct is the only way to deal with Tata steel.  Since we did this communication has been great. When I queried their quote and they realised it was their fault they increased the discount from 25% to 40%. I am booked on a couse in August. If you PM me I can send you the reps name if you still want the product. The rep works for Catnic and has been really helpful. The product is sent to your nearest BM and you pay them the price quoted from Catnic .  I thought the price I was quoted was ok.

[JamesP]

Thought I would update this thread with my recent experience of Tata Colorcoat Urban. I asked for quotes for 3 roofs and 1 wall,  312sqm in total.

The standard panel at 514mm is £13.16/M and after adding ridge, eaves, verges, sealant, paint, rivetts, nails etc the price is £36.00/M + vat.

The also quoted £950.00 for delivery which I did not want to pay, asked to collect myself which they agreed and then made a charge of £50.00 for handling onto my trailer.

The sales people were very helpful and made alterations to quotes within 24 hours. I did contact Catnic through my local BM who were only 20% more expensive which did include the delivery fee.

I will update once I have collected in the New year.

[Alexphd1]

@JamesP very useful information. At the moment we are trying to decide between stainless and zinc on a diy basis. 

[Ian]

2 minutes ago, Alexphd1 said:

At the moment we are trying to decide between stainless and zinc on a diy basis. 

Is that grade 304 or 316 stainless steel?

[Alexphd1]

316

 

[Ian]

3 minutes ago, Alexphd1 said:

316

 

Good choice!

[JamesP]

22 minutes ago, Alexphd1 said:

@JamesP very useful information. At the moment we are trying to decide between stainless and zinc on a diy basis. 

Hi Alex

I did look at Metal Solutions, again very helpful. The costs for sheet material were  Copper £66.36, Stainless Steel £51.51, Aluminium £26.79 per sqm. 

I would have loved to use one of the above materials but due to budget and simplicity I went for Tata. 

Next time.......

 

[albert]

Hi I was also considering the Tata product but have found another supplier in South Wales who were much better on information and price. I will look up the details for anyone interested.

Has anyone discussed rain noise of this product? I haven't searched yet but its something I need to look into system wise.

[JamesP]

38 minutes ago, albert said:

Hi I was also considering the Tata product but have found another supplier in South Wales who were much better on information and price. I will look up the details for anyone interested.

Has anyone discussed rain noise of this product? I haven't searched yet but its something I need to look into system wise.

Let us know who you are referring to.

I did visit Euroclad near Cardiff to look at the Vieo products, slightly different profile and you need to rent the seaming tool.

Off to Tata Steel Deeside on Tuesday with the trailer to collect my 3 roofs and wall panels. I ordered on the 8th December so impressed with the turnaround.

 

[albert]

 The company is called  Euroclad product is VIEO.  I have not looked at it or followed it up any further but will report back my findings.

Ah !!same company as you visited above  can I ask why you went with Tata in the end?  Deeside from Devon that is keen! Hope you are pleased with it.

[JamesP]

3 hours ago, albert said:

Ah !!same company as you visited above  can I ask why you went with Tata in the end?  Deeside from Devon that is keen! Hope you are pleased with it.

I went with Tata as I felt they had thought through more of the details especially around roof lights, I have 7 to fit round. Also no tools to hire, Euroclad require you to rent its seaming tool and as I am fitting myself the cost would have added up.

Cost was very similar for both products, I prefer the slightly wider panel of the Tata and the training offered was excellent.

Leaving 5am to collect so will let you know.

 

 

[albert]

Ok Thanks, good luck.

[marsaday]

Thought i would update this thread with info on my tata roof.

 

I am very happy with the roof, it looks really good.  It is a mono pitched roof at 12 degrees and covers about 42sqm.  There are just 3 tricky square window penetrations to over come.  Cost delivered was £3300 inc vat.

 

I did the free course and all was good, but coming to do the roof is a bit more hair tugging than they portray.  The roof went on ok, but the square penetration flashings are hard.  

 

The instructions are very poor and photos really hard to follow.  Videos are really needed.  Anyway i had a bit of luck as last week the main technical guy said he would come over as he was in my town doing a course and had a free day to kill.  So he's been this morning and was a really big help.  

 

I can now weather proof the roof fully.

 

However, there are a few niggles.

 

I am short of 2 tubes of silicone and 100 self tapping screws which are needed for these penetrations.  They didn't supply enough and it is not up to me how much to order, as they tell you what you need.  I would happily have paid for more screws etc at the initial stage.

 

I see this as their mistake and have asked for new screws and silicone to be sent at their cost seeing as i am loosing probably this week to get it water tight now.  So lost time and inconvenience.

 

The sales manager who i was dealing with referred it (yea right) and the computer said NO.

 

So i have a bill for £120 for 2 silicone and 100 screws.  I think the bill should actually be for £60 and i am waiting to see what they say.

 

The guy who was out today said they are not customer focused at all.  They have been deliberating about making some Utube videos about the install process for the last 10 years and no one will take it up.  Really strange as they need these videos making as they would sell loads more product !

 

Another sales guy is now leaving pretty quick and everyone is annoyed about it.  When on the course i did get the impression the place had that old nationalised industry feel about it.  

 

The product is good, but the service is not the best.  I was lucky to be getting this technical help so this wouldn't normally happen.